O2 Admin

[milldog]

Originally Posted by Juz

The diving we do is at the higher risk end of diving, certainly a bend following a 20m dive is likely to be less serious than a bend from a 70m dive. Whilst we had the facility to deliver 'on-demand' O2, we did not have the facility to deliver constant flow.

I'm regularly at 60-80 meters depth does not determine the seriousness of the bend yes the recompression is longer in the chamber but a gas formation can be spinal/fatal in any depth, the only reason depth becomes an issue is if you go for the surface directly without stops. then IMHO you desrve what you get

Originally Posted by Juz

Obviously an unconscious diver cannot use 'on-demand' but needs constant flow. Feedback from some quarters along with personal experience, would also lead me to believe that constant flow can ease the workload of the lungs even on a conscious casualty.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Juz

Further to this, I was on a boat last year that only had one O2 set, which meant that when we had an incident both divers could not use the O2. Even with one diver on the set, the O2 ran out around an hour before we hit shore. Luckily both myself and another CCR diver both had loads of O2 that we could use, so the buddy pair were fine.

the set on the boat would be for the worst casualty or the unconscious one the other casualty's would use O2 cylinders or breath your rebreather on 100% or cant you do that on CCR?

Originally Posted by Juz

Do you know what the current average Helo response time is?

response on the south coast is between 15 to 40 minutes (average taken from last year)

Originally Posted by Juz

So I decided that I wanted an O2 admin set, but I wanted a set that could be used with pin Index, Din, and possibly even Bullnose tanks. This is what we now have.

Juz

good idea most sets i have seen that come in the plastic boxes have the adapter inside i know of three boats that have this

Graham

[Juz]

Originally Posted by milldog

the set on the boat would be for the worst casualty or the unconscious one the other casualty's would use O2 cylinders or breath your rebreather on 100% or cant you do that on CCR?

What if Blanaid AND her buddy were unconscious - to me, £125 (that is how much my set cost) is worth EVERY penny just to be able to deliver O2 to both.

As with a rescue, (and yes I have been involved in an unsuccessful rescue), I have to have done everything I reasonably could, else how could I live with myself after.

I just got to thinking how I would feel if I lost a friend because I couldn't get O2 into them quickly enough.

I am by no means saying that every diver needs or even should have an O2 set, but I felt I should, even if it's for in the car on the way home.

Last point: if there is one available, it's enexcusable not to know how to use it- so, to all divers everywhere - do the O2 admin course.

Juz

[Juz]

Originally Posted by milldog

response on the south coast is between 15 to 40 minutes (average taken from last year)

Thanks for that Graham, I didn't have the stats to hand.

This is a very serious point, if the average is 30 mins (to make the numbers easy) from point of shout, so probably 35 - 40 mins from onset of symptoms depending on severity.

Those little O2 sets just do not have enough O2 for the job.

Let's say you have one diver 'On-Demand' @ 20l/min, the small O2 sets would last aprox 27 mins.

What if you had 2 divers with problems, perhaps you would have one 'on-demand' and one constant flow, now the tank lasts 18 mins.

If your club has O2 sets, please take them with you, even on hard boat dives. If your club runs ribs, you need at least 2 small sets or add extra bottles/bigger bottles to your set.

Juz

[milldog]

I understand what you are saying Juz but there are other methods NOT taught, if you know anyone in the Navy try to get on one of there divers rescue courses. i did one in Portsmouth and the other in Ilfracombe, there is also a course that you can do with the DDRC the REMT is the better one Here

The problem with people is that they do an O2 admin course and think they need one because there might be two on the boat that need O2 because they are both unconscious but there could be three "SHIT" or FOUR dam were having a bad day !!

do the course you'll find out loads of stuff that PADI, BSAC etc dont teach because they want there ass covered. if you have just done the O2 admin course do this one as well.

As for feeling guilty/or living with yourself afterwards about loosing people because of whatever reason, thats life you can only do so much. In the words of my old CSM "he wont be the first or the last get used to it" if you have done your best what else could you do?

Graham

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by milldog

...If you have done your best what else could you do?

Graham

Better or more next time? Who knows?

Your own kit is also useful for when you are away from a charter boat - you could be on your way home, shore diving etc.

Don't make the assumption that somebody else is laying on the O2 supply for when you need it most.

Adrian

[milldog]

Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland

Better or more next time? Who knows?

Your own kit is also useful for when you are away from a charter boat - you could be on your way home, shore diving etc.

Don't make the assumption that somebody else is laying on the O2 supply for when you need it most.

Adrian

come on lets be serious here one my way home if i was suddenly unconscious and needed O2 then the car would crash and there would be an ambulance if on the other hand your giving yourself O2 because of symptoms you shouldn't be driving and you can use the O2 deco bottle until an ambulance arrives.

you can only do your best there is never any better unless your me and I'd rob your kit make you sign a bill of sale before i gave you any O2

Graham

[Juz]

Originally Posted by milldog

come on lets be serious here one my way home if i was suddenly unconscious and needed O2 then the car would crash and there would be an ambulance if on the other hand your giving yourself O2 because of symptoms you shouldn't be driving and you can use the O2 deco bottle until an ambulance arrives.

you can only do your best there is never any better unless your me and I'd rob your kit make you sign a bill of sale before i gave you any O2

Graham

Come on, you are not being realistic. If the symptons are severe then of course you need immediate medical help, but I know of plenty of people with minor symptoms that have been told to make their own way to a chamber.

Even Steve S who had a fairly sizeable bend had to make his own way.

O2 on this type of trip certainly cannot hurt, and could make quite a difference.

Just accept that whilst O2 may not be the complete answer it certainly cannot hurt - Are you suggesting that individuals or clubs should not have O2 sets?

Juz

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by milldog

come on lets be serious here one my way home if i was suddenly unconscious and needed O2 then the car would crash and there would be an ambulance if on the other hand your giving yourself O2 because of symptoms you shouldn't be driving and you can use the O2 deco bottle until an ambulance arrives.

you can only do your best there is never any better unless your me and I'd rob your kit make you sign a bill of sale before i gave you any O2

Graham

Ah a set of assumptions Graham.

A different set; You are not alone when travelling, you are unlikely to drop straight into unconsciousness, you don't deco on %100. This issue can occur for the non-deep, non-'tech' diver too you know.

And yes you can do better. I was involved in an incident when we gave O2 to a diver on our RIB. Standard D size 137 bar cylinder. It ran out before the helicopter appeared in a relatively short time (< 30 mins and I forgot to admin fluids). So now we carry more O2, it may still run out, but it will take longer to do so. I don't think I will ever forget to administer fluids again.

So are we doing better?

Adrian

[milldog]

I'm not saying dont carry one if you can do so however if you run out of 100% use anything that has more O2 than air even 32% will help, if a DDRC tells you to make your own way to the chamber and stay on O2 then they need to rethink there procedure as Plymouth told me if i needed O2 they would send an ambulance to me!

if you forget stuff thats not ding it worse you still did the best with the circumstances available, however if these skills like everything else arnt practised regular then they are worthless as you get stressed and do things wrong.

Practise learn better skills and if you feel you need an O2 kit Get better training than a one day O2 admin course, because it's just the basics, and if you are that serious get better trained, because it wont just be O2 thats needed.

Graham

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by milldog

I'm not saying dont carry one if you can do so however if you run out of 100% use anything that has more O2 than air even 32% will help, if a DDRC tells you to make your own way to the chamber and stay on O2 then they need to rethink there procedure as Plymouth told me if i needed O2 they would send an ambulance to me!

You could be a long time waiting. Driving yourself or being driven too a chamber is not uncommon.

if you forget stuff thats not ding it worse you still did the best with the circumstances available, however if these skills like everything else arnt practised regular then they are worthless as you get stressed and do things wrong.

Practise learn better skills and if you feel you need an O2 kit Get better training than a one day O2 admin course, because it's just the basics, and if you are that serious get better trained, because it wont just be O2 thats needed.

Graham

Cobblers and words to that effect Graham.

O2 as a first aid treatment has been very effective for many divers. Just because it is basic does not mean it is not good enough for 99% of incidents. Serious events can and have happened during what would appear to be shallow (to you) benign dives. O2 admin has made a big difference to the long term out come of those problems.

Adrian