How big a markup would you expect at LDC?

[balbrigganbloke]

You would imagine correctly
The owner did indeed holiday for free with change all the while proclaiming that he had paid as much as anyone. He didnt get involved in any problems that came up it was a case of im on my holiday leave me alone its your problem.
We were doing the wrecks and reefs last year with tony backhurst so there was a pick up and drop off from the airport/liveaboard.Its a shame he stuck it to people(or at least thats the perception)because this year we are going away for less than a grand and last year it cost nearly two thousand three hundred and now noone is going with him on his trip this year
I go to my lds for nicky nacky things and if i need anything i will price them online and see what the shop are selling them at.Im lucky enough to have four dive shops within forty minutes drive so i can ring around and see which is cheapest
I shop in tesco for my weekly shopping

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by balbrigganbloke

You would imagine correctly
The owner did indeed holiday for free with change all the while proclaiming that he had paid as much as anyone. He didnt get involved in any problems that came up it was a case of im on my holiday leave me alone its your problem.
We were doing the wrecks and reefs last year with tony backhurst so there was a pick up and drop off from the airport/liveaboard.Its a shame he stuck it to people(or at least thats the perception)because this year we are going away for less than a grand and last year it cost nearly two thousand three hundred and now noone is going with him on his trip this year
I go to my lds for nicky nacky things and if i need anything i will price them online and see what the shop are selling them at.Im lucky enough to have four dive shops within forty minutes drive so i can ring around and see which is cheapest
I shop in tesco for my weekly shopping

Blimey! I always understood the TB deal to be 12 places = 1 free. I sure as hell wouldn't have paid £2300 for a week (or was it more than a week?) although I do know that the amount quoted by TB doesn't include extras like tips, beer, or (in some cases) nitrox.

I am not surprised that you aren't going with your LDS this year!

[David D]

Originally Posted by balbrigganbloke

You would imagine correctly
The owner did indeed holiday for free with change all the while proclaiming that he had paid as much as anyone. He didnt get involved in any problems that came up it was a case of im on my holiday leave me alone its your problem.

Not Kevin S. by any chance?

Sounds like him, and a classic of example of where paying gratuitously-over-the-odds prices is pretty much the same has chucking money down a well.

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by 2DiVE4

Anyway, does anyone know where I can order that special pipe thingy which delivers Nitrox from through a USB port on my hard drive..... I need to fill my cylinders on the cheap....

Nope. However if many dive shops really aren't viable businesses and start to disappear faster then we'll adapt. More people will join clubs, shops on the coast may charge more for air. There are places around some coastal sites that just have a shed and a compressor, cheap to run, provide a service, all good. More boats might get compressors too. Schools will need to keep them for their training, and so will be able to provide to the public.

Ignoring the additional costs due to HSE (more regular testing and insurance for example) it is very easy to own and run a clean-air compressor for 25 people for around £50/year. Which would be only pay for me 12 fills at my LDS. I know, because we did it - that includes budgeting for replacement, filters, maintenance, servicing, etc.

So i'm not at all concerned about dive shops closing, because if the demand is there for fills, we will get them elsewhere.

David

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by 2DiVE4

All in all there is need for online shops for convenience & a slightly lesser price and the local dive shops for good advice, seeing and trying the product in the flesh and don't forget air and gas fills! Can't remember getting one of them online.

Errr... remember the advice from dive shops isn't always good advice! If fact you'd get a broader and less biased opinion by (selectively) reading on the internet than you would in most dive shops.

And apart from suits and masks, there's not really much dive kit you can try effectively in a shop - regs don't breathe the same, torches don't look the same, a BC is a BC really...

David

[Ricky2703]

I am all for supporting your LDS.
The internet will not let you try before you buy. To day I went into my LDS for a new reel and was lent the recommended model to dive with on Friday to see if I like it or not.
No fills on the internet. Club/dive site no quick fills or changes of mix if the planned depth changes.
My local LDS will tweak regs, help with set up, give advice(it's up to you whether you take it or not) and talk diving all day.
Ricky

[fatone]

Woz's comments are about right, a balanced view.
Scuby your comments.....
[i]"Nope. However if many dive shops really aren't viable businesses and start to disappear faster then we'll adapt. More people will join clubs, shops on the coast may charge more for air. There are places around some coastal sites that just have a shed and a compressor, cheap to run, provide a service, all good. More boats might get compressors too. Schools will need to keep them for their training, and so will be able to provide to the public.

Ignoring the additional costs due to HSE (more regular testing and insurance for example) it is very easy to own and run a clean-air compressor for 25 people for around £50/year. Which would be only pay for me 12 fills at my LDS. I know, because we did it - that includes budgeting for replacement, filters, maintenance, servicing, etc.

So i'm not at all concerned about dive shops closing, because if the demand is there for fills, we will get them elsewhere."
These comments are difficult to grasp, if, as you state, non viable dive shops close we pay more to shops on the coast ? surley thats an arse about face way of dealing with the problem ?
"There are places around some coastal sites that just have a shed and a compressor, cheap to run, provide a service, all good"
is a very broad generalisation, as i, and i am sure others on YD, who know of the odd doggy compressor operators ?
"Schools will need to keep them for their training, and so will be able to provide to the public."
If it aint viable for a LDS, why would it be viable for a school ? and who say's they will provide it to the public ?
"Ignoring the additional costs due to HSE (more regular testing and insurance for example) it is very easy to own and run a clean-air compressor for 25 people for around £50/year. Which would be only pay for me 12 fills at my LDS. I know, because we did it - that includes budgeting for replacement, filters, maintenance, servicing, etc."
Why ignore the "additional costs due to HSE (more regular testing and insurance" surely thats how you know it's clean air ?
My maths are crap but 25 x £50 = £2,500, which to own and run a compressor seems like an expensive compressor unless you are including the purchase price ?
Hamworthy and the like will do a full maintenace contract for (based on a quote 12 months old) £140 ex. vat, a month, £1,680 including full warrenty, filters and servicing, air testing etc., but excluding the electric motor !
And finally, your comment
"Errr... remember the advice from dive shops isn't always good advice! If fact you'd get a broader and less biased opinion by (selectively) reading on the internet than you would in most dive shops"
You must be looking at a different internet than me, cause i can point to loads of bad advice on the net, and (selectivley) not go to dive shops that sprout shite !
P.s. Tesco & Asda and a good dash of pie van

[fatone]

Appolagies for shite layout of post !!!!!

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by fatone

Scuby your comments.....

Ahhh, a quoter's nightmare!

These comments are difficult to grasp, if, as you state, non viable dive shops close we pay more to shops on the coast ? surley thats an arse about face way of dealing with the problem ?

Depends. Is it worth paying maybe 50% more for a reg at an LDS now compared to an internet shop, to save £1 per fill in a couple of years time? Even one purchase at an expensive LDS is a hell of a lot of air fills in the future if it does close.

Its basic game theory - if *everyone* buys from their LDS, prices will end up pretty much the same across the board, and in the long term we may all benefit. However, if some people buy online, LDS's increase prices (as they lose customers), and so those who stay with the LDS lose out. Those who "cheat" and go with the internet shops will benefit in the short term, and everyone will end up in the same position again in long term.

Its just a question of why you stick with the LDS. If it's genuinely because they provide a very good service then fine - i'd use them. If its a misplaced sense of loyalty just because they happen to be the closest to you then I can't see the attraction in that. Use them for your fills if you need them, if kit is cheaper elsewhere then do it. It's a free market economy - I shop around. Just as I don't buy my TV from Tesco just because I buy my bread from there, I don't feel like i'm being disloyal. Shops exist to sell to customers - and customers will (and should) shop around and use the best shops for what they're buying.

It boils down to something i've said a few times before - support your LDS *if* they offer something you want, if they provide a good service, and if the prices are reasonable. Don't just go there out of some misplaced loyalty because "you feel you should". I've got no problem if people do - I just can't see the logic of it personally.

If it aint viable for a LDS, why would it be viable for a school ? and who say's they will provide it to the public ?

Assuming they are making money from the teaching, then if there are no other suppliers of air around they'll have to run a compressor. And if they're paying for capital costs, maintenance, etc, chances are many will offer air to the public too.

My maths are crap but 25 x £50 = £2,500, which to own and run a compressor seems like an expensive compressor unless you are including the purchase price ?

I was including the purchase price, but that's the point. It is very cheap to run a compressor - and so if shops close then its very easy and cheap for clubs, other shops, schools, etc to buy and run their own compressors. I only excluded the additional costs for HSE because i don't know exactly what they are, and we didn't pay them in the club. We had regular tests, but I believe there may be more regular requirements for commercial operations? As I said, I don't know the details, so I excluded them.

You must be looking at a different internet than me, cause i can point to loads of bad advice on the net, and (selectivley) not go to dive shops that sprout shite !

Exactly - there's good and bad advice everywhere, on the internet and in shops. So you can pick out what's good and bad. For a beginner though, if they're in a dive shop they have little reason to doubt the shop staff. At least on the internet (something like YD for example) if someone gives crap advice someone else will very quickly say so. Much less easy to be given only one side of the story here. Unless you know the shop, then "good advice" is meaningless, because you don't know if it's good or not.

Again, it comes back to using an LDS because it happens to also be a very good shop, not using an LDS just because it happens to be the closest. It's a critical difference!

David

[sas steve]

Hi
I work at a LDS in Dorset, We are also an Internet seller and although we have shop prices different to the net we always sell at net prices to our walk in customers as most of them have done their homework first, We also have a Pricematch policy. We are a full service centre for just about every reg on the market so give that personal touch even to our online customers. Purchase a reg from us and I assemble and test it before it goes out. DivingShop.com - diving equipment supplied secure online www.forwarddiving.com. ShootingShop.com - shooting equipment supplied secure online
Support your local Dive centre by giving them the chance to supply but if they can't match the price then checkout the Internet shops for after sales service as well.