How big a markup would you expect at LDC?

[2DiVE4]

I think the point being made is:

That if you purchased a piece of equipment from your local shop and it needed a adjusting or something minor doing to it then your local guy will do this without charge (sometimes when its even out of warranty) as you have put business his way. It's called customer relations. Some people value this service and others just go for the cheapest option to save initial outlay which is understandable at the time.

Sounds like you haven't had too many problems with your kit which is good, but I can assure you that there are many divers who have and value this service. Maybe your perspective will change if you have a problem with your kit, maybe not. Maybe you've had bad service from your LDS. If so then your view is understandable.

It isn't a what's right and wrong matter, just a matter of choice. I've had quite a few guys in my shop who have made that same choice to order cheap online (you know who you are guys!) then been into me to rectify their problems.

If you happen to live near one of the cheaper online outlets then even better. You won't have a long drive to take you kit in. But the majority of divers don't. That's just a geographical thing.

Safe diving,

Steve

[Mal Bridgeman]

I would expect at least 40% ... the LDS owners have to make a living just as we all do.

[RANT=ON]
I don't want to pay more than I have to but I find the whole "cheapest-mentality" very frustrating. It's why we have such cheap training courses that safety just has to be compromised to deliver them, it's why too many instructors have just come out of their course and are working for free.

For some reason people are not appreciating that their regs, BCs etc are life support equipment, that the training they get is designed to ensure they can operate effectively and enjoy themselves whilst underwater....and that if those things are valuable to them then perhaps an industry founded on "cheap" may not be the most compatible.

I guess the perceived risk has been dumbed down but I doubt on sky diving boards, that people buy their kit from eBay and just take it for a jump the following weekend.
[RANT=OFF]

Rgrds
Mal

[principia]

Mak,

Why does cheap training mean standards have to compromised,On that thinking the training offered through the clubs must be the most dangerous of all.

I would have thouoht that most people that do their instructor training will be aware there is no money in it.


J.

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by principia

Mak,

Why does cheap training mean standards have to compromised,On that thinking the training offered through the clubs must be the most dangerous of all.

I would have thouoht that most people that do their instructor training will be aware there is no money in it.


J.

NB... I am a PADI UK instructor, this post refers to that system, and none other!

Simple. Lower sudent/instructor ratios are safer, but more expensive because a school may have to pay 2 instructors.

A school which can offer higher pay to its instructors will have its pick, and (theoretically) choose the better instructors to run the course.

Yes, most instructors do know that there isn't a great deal of money in it. The money is further reduced by the attitude that cheapest is best and that many instructors are prepared to work for nothing.

Simple economic extrapolations mean that the school which can get people to work for nothing can make the course cheaper and will get a higher demand for it.

[Scuby]

I guess the perceived risk has been dumbed down but I doubt on sky diving boards, that people buy their kit from eBay and just take it for a jump the following weekend.

Errrr, totally unrelated. A more appropriate analogy would be buying your Sony Model XYZ laptop from the Sony Shop for £2000, or your Sony Model XYZ laptop from Tesco Online for £500. Both exactly the same, both with identical warranties, both made in the same place at the same time. Only difference is who you buy it from - makes absolutely no difference to safety. If it went wrong then you might have to post it back to Tesco Online, where as you could drop it into the Sony Shop yourself - but Sony Shops aren't that common so maybe £5 worth of petrol to take it there (same as a dive shop), which is about the same as postage. Both will then send the laptop off to someone else to fix it (same as with many regs, etc), so the delays in doing that are identical.

When I shop at Tesco I probably get baked beans cheaper than if I went to a corner shop near me. But I don't compromise on quality, I don't get Tesco Value beans, I'd get Heinz beans in either place - I just don't pay the markup of the less efficient retailer. No compromise on quality or safety!

Originally Posted by 2DiVE4

It isn't a what's right and wrong matter, just a matter of choice.

Nice that someone reads my posts and understands what i'm saying

I did try to escape this thread a while ago, but people keep asking stupid questions without having read what i've actually written. So to summarise:

I DO NOT object on principle to people using their LDS.
I DO object to being told I should use a bad LDS just because it happens to be local.
I DO try the LDS's when I move into a new area.
I WILL use the LDS when it is convenient, when they stock what I want, and when their prices are sensible.
I WILL use the LDS for air fills etc when I need them.
I WILL NOT use an LDS purely "to support them" if I know I can get a better deal elsewhere.
I DO NOT believe this is disloyal or anything like that - shops offer a range of services, and should not expect every customer to use them for all-or-nothing.
I DO NOT believe any dive shop in the UK would give its customers an ultimatum of "use us for all your kit purchases, or we won't do air fills or servicing for you.
I AM NOT concerned about shops closing in the future if I don't shop there - if demand exists, there will be other options.
I DO accept that a loss of LDS's may increase prices in the long term (although that's in no way a guarantee).
I DO NOT believe that is a good enough reason to pay significantly higher markups today.
I ONLY shop around to find the same or better products at lower prices.
I DO NOT compromise on safety in any way by buying online.

Any more questions, please ask someone else!

David

[balbrigganbloke]

Ah yeah but where will you get your air from ? lmao

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by balbrigganbloke

Ah yeah but where will you get your air from ? lmao

Oooooh, I never thought of that

*runs to LDS to buy lots of kit*

[Mal Bridgeman]

Scubee has pretty much echoed my thoughts.....I started a new thread here so as not to digress too much on this one.

Scuby - I understand your point if the equipment is taken in isolation but I don;t think it should be isolated. It's part of the basic diamond of things a diver needs.....Skills, Knowledge, Equipment & Experience ..... to be safe and enjoy their sport.

Let's pick it up on the other thread, please?

Thanks
Mal

[dmcartwright]

Folks,

Thanks for all the replies. It has been really interesting reading through the replies and the views of everyone. What I didn't mention is that I actually did my OW training with my LDS here in the UK and booked a Red Sea trip as well with them, (where I finished off the OW certification). It just surprised me the difference in price mainly in the regs.....

Once again thanks for all your inputs.

David.