First Set of Regs

[Alex85]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

If you are planning on twinset diving then I would highly recommend looking at the rig of someone with a set of DS4 first stages, then have a really good look at the gap between the regs and whether you would be able to fit your head in there. Most people I know can't so they twist the first stages a little which lets them get their head in the right position. This has an adverse affect on the hose routing which causes the hoses to buckle.

Then go look at someone who has Scubapro Mk25s and look at the gap and their hose routing.

The MK25s are more expensive but it seems you either pay a little more for the reg .... or an on-going replacement cost for the hoses.

HTH
Mal

Okay cool, i've seen that apeks now do some left and right handed 1st stages, i think there called tek3's what are these like, is it worth getting a dst and when i move on a twinset upgrading to the tek3's and use the dst for a stage cylinder?

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by Alex85

Okay cool, i've seen that apeks now do some left and right handed 1st stages, i think there called tek3's what are these like, is it worth getting a dst and when i move on a twinset upgrading to the tek3's and use the dst for a stage cylinder?

Never seen the TEK3s close up so I don't know how they cope with the space issue or the hose routing issue.

The spacing issue is really important and not one that enough attention is paid to. If you get a wide manifold then it's less of a problem but most doubles in the UK have a narrow manifold meaning the space between the regs is smaller than ideal with some first stage types.

This does not become evident till you get the twinset and want to start shutdowns.....you need to be flat to do that easily but to be flat and see where you are going you need to get your head back.....if the stages are too close together you can't get your head back .... so you compensate by not going into flat trim .... and struggle to do shutdowns .... it's an all too familiar story.

Because the TEK3 are handed it reduces your flexibility in the future should you wish to share with a buddy if he has a faulty regulator or if you want to carry a stage ....

The Mk25s fit the bill in all cases which is why I like them so much. I dived with SPIRO ARCTICS for a long time cos I really liked them .... but they were the cause of a lot of hassle in doubles diving too

Mal

BTW I now have a mix of scubapro Mk20s and Mk25s and can't see me changing from that .... they are also a brilliant config for single tank diving.

[wacky28]

Originally Posted by Alex85

Okay cool, i've seen that apeks now do some left and right handed 1st stages, i think there called tek3's what are these like, is it worth getting a dst and when i move on a twinset upgrading to the tek3's and use the dst for a stage cylinder?

Personally I think the Tek 3's look great but couldn't warrant spunking that sort of money on them.

If you go for Woz recomendation of Xtx 50's, these can be swapped over to left handed in about 10 mins. Best bet would be to ask for them to be left hooked when you order.

I use an Atx 50 & an Xtx 50, on my set up, but I found having the left post fed from the left a pain when I try to dump air, so I have reconfigured to have both right handed, with the left post on a long hose run around the back of my noggin' as my primary. Then the right post on a bungee unedr my chin. This works for me, but you really need to try it for yourself & see what works for you.

Cue slating for Hose config.........................!

[Mal Bridgeman]

Credit to Graham (Milldog) for the pic. but the easy routing and large space is evident here.



HTH
Mal

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by Alex85

i think there called tek3's what are these like, is it worth getting a dst and when i move on a twinset upgrading to the tek3's and use the dst for a stage cylinder?

The Tek 3's are expensive over £200 each.

I recently bought a set of scubapros (picture above) for a little over £500 and I am very happy with them.

[Twinsetmad]

Another vote for the XTX50/40 on a DS4... future proof, bomb proof. You can't go wrong with them. Much cheaper than the Mk25 and just as good. Save your pennies to buy other shiney stuff. Go Dive will be the cheapest, give them a call.. also if you want a good compact gauge, look at the Suunto range, SPG with a compass on the back... small and very practical.

If you want tiny then look at the Scubapro compact gauge..

[hyweldavies]

I concur with others' advice on Apeks - can't go wrong, although there are other valid makes no doubt. I have mixture of the older model TX40 and TX50 with DS4 and they are fine. Tough I've not compared them with much else, but seeing as they work fine are cheap and are made in UK, felt no need to look elsehwere. I believe the newer model XTX40 / XTX50 are very similar. The DS4 has a number of benefits over its turreted counterpart DST - the main one for me is that all the hose ports are standard 3/8" - which makes it easy to swap hoses round for best routing, or between single and twin arrangements without worrying about what goes where. Though mine are now one twins, I had the DS4 on a single originally and subsequently on a stripy fish holiday, and never felt the need for the turret. The TX50 has an extra twiddle thing to adjust which can help minimise freeflows especially for the reg you are not breathing; not essential, but that's the only difference. I gather the TX40 still has the guts of the adjuster, but no twiddly knob - but can be turned by allen key apparently.

Your comment on gauges - I was recommended to get just a pressure gauge not a console - which is what I did. This was very good advice - just a gauge is much better. I'd go for a nice big 63mm brass one eg the one niknaks is selling - get advice on hose length (from him) as "normal" hoses are too long. Tie it with string to a dog clip, and clip it off somewhere neat where you can see it, rather than let it danlge.

Finally, have a read about the "long hose" thing. I'd get a 2m long hose. I went for this straight off for my first (and only) set, and can see no reason whatsover not to, although it's not taught to beginners as standard. There are "views" on which one to breath off, and how to stow, but few if any "proper" divers disagree that the 2m hose is "a good thing". For what it's worth I've gone for the DIR-ish breath off and donate the long one, wrapped round under belt-battery across chest behind head into mouth, though it's not the only way.

(not as experienced as most here, but 150 dives and twins + nitrox deco and stuff and more to the point only a few years since going through all the regs thing)

Hywel

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by hyweldavies

The DS4 has a number of benefits over its turreted counterpart DST - the main one for me is that all the hose ports are standard 3/8" - which makes it easy to swap hoses round for best routing, or between single and twin arrangements without worrying about what goes where.

To be fair, the 'XTX' version of the DST no longer has the silly 1/2" LP port that the older DSTs have so if you do go for a DST, make sure it's the DST version. Oh and don't bother getting an Apeks 'Status' 1st stage - it's all b*llox.

As others said, the most optimal 1st stage for twinset diving is still the Scubapro MK25 but they're bleedin' expensive. If your budget is tight then go for the still superb Apeks DS4 but if you're seriously considering a set of Apeks TEK3 1st stages then don't - go for Scubapro MK25s instead as they're far superior.

Originally Posted by hyweldavies

Your comment on gauges - I was recommended to get just a pressure gauge not a console - which is what I did. This was very good advice - just a gauge is much better. I'd go for a nice big 63mm brass one eg the one niknaks is selling - get advice on hose length (from him) as "normal" hoses are too long. Tie it with string to a dog clip, and clip it off somewhere neat where you can see it, rather than let it danlge.

Yup - couldn't agree more. Go for a nice sturdy plated brass mineral glass pressure guage with no boot and then attatch a stainless steel boltsnap to the hose fitting using with a bit of SMB line.

Originally Posted by hyweldavies

Finally, have a read about the "long hose" thing. I'd get a 2m long hose. I went for this straight off for my first (and only) set, and can see no reason whatsover not to, although it's not taught to beginners as standard. There are "views" on which one to breath off, and how to stow, but few if any "proper" divers disagree that the 2m hose is "a good thing". For what it's worth I've gone for the DIR-ish breath off and donate the long one, wrapped round under belt-battery across chest behind head into mouth, though it's not the only way.

Some good kit configuration websites here...

Bitz Scuba Diving Equipment Guide
The Basics

[Leg Of Salmon]

Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman

If you are planning on twinset diving then I would highly recommend looking at the rig of someone with a set of DS4 first stages, then have a really good look at the gap between the regs and whether you would be able to fit your head in there. Most people I know can't so they twist the first stages a little which lets them get their head in the right position. This has an adverse affect on the hose routing which causes the hoses to buckle.

Then go look at someone who has Scubapro Mk25s and look at the gap and their hose routing.

The MK25s are more expensive but it seems you either pay a little more for the reg .... or an on-going replacement cost for the hoses.

HTH
Mal

What does anyone else feel about this? I am also considering DS4/XTX40/XTX50 with half a mind on "upgrading" to a twin set in the future. The Mk25 seems a lot more money for not much more reg.

[Garf]

Originally Posted by Sam Johnston

What does anyone else feel about this? I am also considering DS4/XTX40/XTX50 with half a mind on "upgrading" to a twin set in the future. The Mk25 seems a lot more money for not much more reg.

Mk25s are the optimal setup, but DS4s are just fine. I've been using a set for a couple of years - yes the hoses do wear more due to having to have a "bend" in them, but it's not really that much of a drama.

Either DS4s or Mk25s would be great for a twinset.