27th of December 2006

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Al_Star

Deco gas - no-one blew off gas pre-dive. Due to an issue with fills the team had to boost up Mark's deco gas by decanting out of the others.

Al

This is also bullshit.

Bob blew down his ali 80 from 200 to 160bar to make it float. An event we have discuissed several times since. Claires Ali 80 was already at 160bar


Whats gonig on All you wernt on the boat and your getting your facts wrong?

ATB

Mark

[Janos]

Originally Posted by Fiona

Since the incident involving SteveS has also been mentioned the buddy was me, so it was my responsibility to ensure Steve was OK. I didn't and felt bad about it when eventually I realised how bad Steve was, It is a day I will never forget. I live with it all the time - I did nothing. It is easy in hindsight to say the it is the responsibility of the buddy, I was on the boat with Steve, Mark's buddies were not.

Fiona,

I wasn't on the boat when Steve had his incident, so I can't say for certain. Maybe you made a mistake or maybe you didn't. However, if you did make a mistake, I'm sure it wasn't intentional, and also that the majority of divers would have made the same decision if they were in your shoes.

With Mark's incident, my view is that his buddies made mistakes, and so did I. But the important thing is that we learn from them, and try our best to avoid them in the future.

Janos

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Howard Payne

I have to take issue respectfully with the assertion that somehow there are loads of Ratio Deco / DOTF bends somehow being glossed over or covered up.

This is the only incident with any real consequence that I was aware from the GUE mob over here where the info wasn't in the public domain until now.

I know of four GUE divers who have been bent including an instructor with multiple bends but I am not gonig to name them publicly. Have a word with Clare to confirm, I am sure she knows about three of them.

ATB

Mark

[Mark Chase]

The whole point of me raising the issue of this incident was to stop the "If we were all GUE divers this wouldn't happen" nonsense which was the foundation of the post by Howard P.

Looking at the facts of this incident a few things are apparent.


A BSAC DO wouldn't have let him do the dive

A BSAC DO would have called the cost guard

This is also true of Si's incident. A BSAC DO wouldn't have let him dive either.


So perhaps we should all be BSAC and only do club dives because both these incidents show we cant be trusted to ensure were dived up before a dive regardless of being TDI or GUE trained.

ATB

Mark

[Paul Oliver]

Fi, how can you feel responsible in Steve's case? It was a set of circumstances mainly before he even got on the boat and i believe the first you knew about it was when he keeled over on the pontoon?

He never had anything happen that could be construde as a major factor/incident and once it was spotted it was dealt with by those there.

[gobfish1]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

The whole point of me raising the issue of this incident was to stop the "If we were all GUE divers this wouldn't happen" nonsense which was the foundation of the post by Howard P.

Looking at the facts of this incident a few things are apparent.


A BSAC DO wouldn't have let him do the dive

A BSAC DO would have called the cost guard

This is also true of Si's incident. A BSAC DO wouldn't have let him dive either.


So perhaps we should all be BSAC and only do club dives because both these incidents show we cant be trusted to ensure were dived up before a dive regardless of being TDI or GUE trained.

ATB

Mark

Mark I think that’s what sets Bsac out from the rest,
It’s a CLUB

I was the Do at my club for more that 12 years, and I always had my eye on my divers
I know them all, what sort of dive’s they were good for, when they last dived, what there sac rate was, what there comfort level was, how deep was there last dive, I could put a strong diver with a weak diver, I could keep an I on them in the water, see if they were having a good day or not, even know about problems at there home. Wife kid’s work
Home much drink they liked, I know a thousand things about each one of them
Sport divers that were as good as advance diver,
Advance diver that were little better that novice diver’s, old fat divers with shite kit
Young guns with loads of cash and the best kit money could buy, but shite divers
The list goes s on and on,
All this information helped me make the call on each diver and the dives we would be doing
Best of all I had ten other divers’ with the same information and years of diving as me to kick my arse if I got in wrong.
We had about 160 years of diving experience in the club on a bad day,

Now when I go diving as Joe bloggs I don’t know shit about half the diver s I dive with,
I only know my buddy on most trips,

If you’re diving out side a club environment you’re as good as on you’re own,
I meet divers on the boat I don’t wish them no harm, and I hope there dive go’s well.
Being a member of a club and diving with that club is a massive safety line for new and old diver s alike , I used to worry about my divers ,, I don’t worry about guys I meet on a boat , sound bad I know ,,

Let me put it this way... you dive with you’re long time buddy and you look after each other... you wouldn’t want something bad to happen to him ..

If you dive with you wife and kids do you feel the same, BUT you worry more for them, ( a club is like that )

If you’re not in a dive club you need to be able to look after you’re self
You can’t have it all ways, you’re in a club or you’re on you’re jack Jones

A diving officer is responsible for his divers,
If I go diving with some divers of yd I don’t have the tools to make the call,
I know sfa about them ,, al I can do is hope that the buddy’s he is diving with know him better than me , and they both have the skill s to pull off what ever dive we are doing ,,

If thing's go bad I won’t know of it till I get back in the boat, then you have 10 divers all 2nd guessing each other on what to do next,
Now I ant used to that, and would offer may advice only the once, and that would be it
Take it or leave it,
When you have a diving officer on the boat, the club diver look’s to him as to what to do and do not go 2nd guessing him...?

I don’t know the lad that missed the stops , or his buddy s so I ant going to point a finger at no one ,, just want to say to all the divers posting in this thread give it a rest ,,
You have all had you’re say made point’s, I don’t think we a learning a thing by ripping the shit out of each other,
Now you know I like to rip the piss out of you all when I can, but it’s only in jest.
And I think some of the post in this thread are not it jest, some of them are posted in malice

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Howard Payne

Wrong end of the stick - they didn't just jump in - the dive was planned carefully from what I've heard from some of those involved
A 9m a minute ascent rate to deep stops was taught to us a Tech 1 quite clearly by Kerslake.
The words "stop fannying about and get a f*cking move on" were used tenderly as I recall
Judging 9m a minute is a different thing - it's a lot quicker than many people realise as I think Chasey has pointed out before

Howard take a step back and try and reconcile what your saying with the actual events.

Did Bob and Clare know about Mark's lack of build up dives?

If Yes why did they let him dive?

If no why wasn't it discussed in pre dive planning?

Did they just assume Mark realized he would need to do a 9m/min ascent to the first stop?

If this is a standard and was therefore assumed why wasn't Mark aware of the standard and why wasn't he trained up enough to do it? By his own admission He didn't normally ascend that fast? and yet they only achieved 6m/min so what standard had he been taught or used previously?

Having done a proper pre dive briefing and ascertained mark was sea / deep dive rusty what plans were made to reduce the impact of this on Mark during the dive.

Was the procedure for a diver having a rapid ascent discussed prior to the dive or is it a GUE standard.

If its a GUE standard to send up a second SMB and the diver should descend why didn't Mark follow standards. Is this another training deficit?

You see personally I see it as a normal every day screw up by three normal everyday humans.

Yes OK they didn't do a detailed pre dive analysis and plan and as a result when something went wrong things kind of fell apart.

The sort of thing that could happen to any one.


Asumption is the mother of all f-ups.

I have dived with Janos 20+ times at a gues. Last week we discussed what we would do in this situation, for the first time. Prior to that Id just kind of asumed we'd figure it out.

ATB

Mark

[Diving Dude]

Originally Posted by Sparky750

....so can we please cut out the dick swinging etc everyone say sorry group hug and get back to keeping this place the great place it is normally without the infighting and agency slagging off....

Yeah but......they started it...so ner ner ner

[Sparky750]

Originally Posted by Diving Dude

Yeah but......they started it...so ner ner ner

cnut

[gobfish1]

Originally Posted by Sparky750

cnut

2nd thattttttttttttttttttttttt