Checking YBOD handsets

[Drmike]

Originally Posted by Drmike

Ah that would be the new HDD for the PRISM. Just as you describe plus deco info

[Decodiver]

Originally Posted by JJJBBB

Another useful analogy.
You never stop learning and whoever you are, anyone can still make mistakes. The good thing about a CCR is that you sometimes have the chance to undo some of them!

Those are very valid points.

As mentionned earlier your article about the setpoint switch was honest and is always mentionned when I teach courses, do you think loads of information in a HUD (ie Deco) is beneficial? I guess you still need a controller to choose gasses etc.

You seem to have dived with them what's your verdict?

[Mdemon]

Originally Posted by Drmike

(Picture)

Nice! Of course, it needs to be in metres, not feet...

I presume it controls the O2 as well, so no need for handsets?

I don't suppose you know what it costs do you?

[BJ]

Originally Posted by Decodiver

Those are very valid points.

As mentionned earlier your article about the setpoint switch was honest and is always mentionned when I teach courses, do you think loads of information in a HUD (ie Deco) is beneficial? I guess you still need a controller to choose gasses etc.

You seem to have dived with them what's your verdict?

Indicator-lights and instruments. In my view we will always need the instruments but indicator-lights can prove very useful. They simply remind you to check your instruments. That reminds me, I must go and check the oil-level in my car. I thought I saw the oil-level indicator-light flash on for a moment.

[Mark Chase]

Jeeeeezzzzz

My family were soooooo poor we lived in a box

A BOX you don’t know how lucky you were. We dreamed of a box.

etc. etc.

IMHO There are sub categories of re-breather divers.

Group 1: Want it because its the latest techno (ha ha its older than OC)

Group 2: Want it as a new challenge in diving because there bored

Group 3: Want it because its the must have dead hard Tec diving kit

Group 4: want it because they need it. It’s a tool

A bit like a hammer

I fall into group 4. I hate re-breathers and joking aside I have never ever had the desire to own one. They are a an expensive PITA and not as much fun to dive as OC. Ohhhhh there good on many levels but they are not fun.

I don’t find checking hand sets every 30 seconds task loading, its not exactly rocket science. I don’t forget to check my hand sets, but I might on a given day, I don’t lack the discipline to check my hand sets, I am anal about kit prep maintenance and dive planning, I am not stupid either

I JUST DONT WANT TO

I want to dive. A dive involves the freedom and shear pleasure of weightlessness combined with the spectacle of the wreck, reef, wall, what ever. It does NOT involve checking my equipment every 30-60 seconds. On OC less than 50m I would do 45mins then check my gauges for the first time. There was no need to check them before that as I am well aware I can get 60mins out of a twin set at that depth and if I had a leek my buddy would have noticed and besides all that, I have bail out.

I want CCR to be the same. If there is a problem, Ill deal with it but I want the warning system for that problem to be unobtrusive I don’t want it to interfere with my dive. I don’t trust CCRs I doubt if I will ever be Alpinist below 20m, I always carry bail out. If it weren’t for passing out or 02 tox I would have gone CCR straight away skipping Trimix OC altogether. As it is its a risk I have to take to carry on doing the diving I am planning in a practical and cost effective way.

The Inspiration II was the plan until Uri's HUD came along and made the standard unit do all I needed it to do. I can’t imagine any new CCR coming on the market without a HUD. The HUD shown above for the Prism is fantastic and would put that unit on my short list but I would want back up PP02 gauges in case it failed. Just like I have on my Inspiration with HUD unit now.

ATB

Mark Chase

[PrettyFishies]

Oh dear, if only I had more time in the day time to respond to these wonderful challenging discussions Uri!!

You make some good points. But I'm with Dr Mike on this one. I spent several years as a network engineer and I am all too familiar with triplicate systems and even quadruple redundancy failing. That is why I have the mentality that I do have, it's based on EXPERIENCE.

I DO believe in gremlins. I've sat up overnight in huge commercial buildings preparing complex systems to go live. Testing has gone perfectly, going live has gone perfectly. A few hours of babysitting has gone perfectly. Just as you're ready to leave BANG!! some completely unquantified fault happens that takes 12 hours to fix and turns out to be something you would never expect in a million years. Well, my diving has been the same. Water and electronics were never meant to mix anyway!

For chasey - sorry mate but OC and CC are different. A bit of basic checking should not detract massively from a dive. It really doesn't for me. As Dr Mike says, if you need the HUD controller to spot a problem, you should have spotted it long before on the handsets. I am also cat 4, I got a RB as I had reached the limits of my OC gear but with my RB I also took the attitude that a bit more discipline is critical to survival. That bit of discipline has kept me alive, not the courses or indeed the bollocks that "toe the party line" types keep spouting at me.

Uri - HUDs may have their place but their place is NOT to replace fundamental rebreather concepts, including the diver checking their own PPO2 on the handsets. Until you can prove to me categorically that a HUD will never fail your arguments hold no water. Sorry.

Regards

AnneMarie

[Mdemon]

Uri - HUDs may have their place but their place is NOT to replace fundamental rebreather concepts, including the diver checking their own PPO2 on the handsets. Until you can prove to me categorically that a HUD will never fail your arguments hold no water. Sorry

All well and good, but if your handsets were shrunk in size and mounted as per the picture Dr Mike posted, that IS the same as the diver checking their own PO2 - because the handsets are now mounted as a HUD. Additionally, should a warning be shown, it would be shown the instant an issue arises - not during that 30 second period between checks. Actually, isn't this the case with HUD on offer now? Either way, this is clearly a more efficient way of keeping a diver in touch with the state of his unit.

Mark makes a very valid point - why shouldn't we aspire to diving without having to constantly check the state of our equipment? What's wrong with that? The continual persuit of excellence and all that...

[PrettyFishies]

Md, as you just said on MSN, yeah stir the porridge a bit. Go and dive the feckin thing instead of talking about it on here will ya!!

Break a drill - remake a drill. Do it manually instead of using these fancy toys as substitues. Half the time spent building bells and whistles should be spent diving!!

Regards

AnneMarie

[Mark Chase]

if you need the HUD controller to spot a problem, you should have spotted it long before on the handsets.

I am very much a newby so my arguments are theoretical not experience based. As a result they hold little weight in the presence of vastly more experienced CCR divers. That said I fail to see how the computers in the hand sets which are linked to the three cells are any more useful than the HUD that is also linked to exactly the same cells on the same loom. The HUD will instantaneously alert a diver to a PP02 that goes outside 1.15 to 1.45 a deviation of 0.15 from a standard 1.3 set point. Isn't that enough for the diver to carry out a safe CCR dive?

If CNS was so tight that doing the dive on 1.4 as opposed to 1.3 it might be an issue or deco set on 1.3 and you did the dive on whole dive on 1.2 but that shouldn’t happen should it? If the unit is set to 1.3 and your actually on 1.2 the error is not going to remain constant is it? Beside which I would check hand sets at the bottom of the shot mid point in the dive and just before bagging off so it wouldn’t be that critical with the run times I do. 3 hours in the water is a big dive for me.

Uri - HUDs may have their place but their place is NOT to replace fundamental re-breather concepts, including the diver checking their own PPO2 on the handsets. Until you can prove to me categorically that a HUD will never fail your arguments hold no water. Sorry.

What’s the problem with the HUD failing? If the lights go out or act strangely then you would revert to hand sets or abort the dive?? What’s the difference with the three internal circuits of the HUD failing or the failure of both hand sets??

It sounds to this inexperienced user that you’re preaching the virtues of a fallible electronic monitoring system over those of a fallible electronic monitoring system?? To me either one could fail and I would be surprised if sooner or later one of them didn’t fail. As it is I am still doing realiaty checks on the hand sets as I dont trust the HUD fulley yet but this will fade away in time if I can get some serious hours on it.

Rest asured if I discover any issues with its use I will let you all know

ATB

Mark Chase

PS Always had you down as a 4

[Mdemon]

Originally Posted by AnneMarie

Md, as you just said on MSN, yeah stir the porridge a bit. Go and dive the feckin thing instead of talking about it on here will ya!!

Break a drill - remake a drill. Do it manually instead of using these fancy toys as substitues. Half the time spent building bells and whistles should be spent diving!!

Regards

AnneMarie

Oi Ref! FOUL! You know I can't dive the Box yet!

Kick a man when he's down...


You women can be so cruel...

<sob>