TDI Inspiration Course Report

[wreckweasel]

Originally Posted by Andrew H

The more I read about CCR the more disillusioned I become. They seem to deliver fantastic benefits at fantastic prices but also fantastic risk and complication. I recently read Richard Pyle's comments on his reabreather diving and found much the same story there. Not only does it take you back to square one but it seem to be worse than that. Don't get me worng I still want one, I just feel that the dream is letting me down. Must be a gap in the rebreather market for the product which I thought the inspiration was!

Andrew

I think when you look into the benefits and the counter arguments a lot of people end up with;


1. More efficient Deco. This one is a bit of an interesting one and depends heavily upon your beleif/understanding of the benefits of constant PO2 vs toggling your tox load. Not all of us use our breathers to run truly constant PO2.

2. Simplicity of logistics for gas supply. This is a definite one, my drive tanks will last me 5 dives at a push, although I normally re-fill after 4 (sometimes 2 for deepies). My bailout tanks were blown about 2 years ago.... You also tend to escape depth specific mixes.

3. Warm, moist breathing gas. Another definite, on top of feeling nice, this is beneficial to your lungs.

4. Less weight to carry. Erm, I'd have to disagree, unless you're going alpinist. You can make savings on weight by going to a team bailout strategy though.

5. More options for bailout. This is a double edged sword, in my opinion breathers make for more options, but for some people, that can be a bad thing. the breather is a tool and you have to train appropriately to make best use of it.

You need to consider if a breather is really needed for what you want to do. Typically for anything down to 40m, you will carry MORE tanks with the breather than OC to acheive the same level of bailout.

Having said that, its great for those trips to places where gas may be troublesome.


/Zak

[Andrew H]

I am really impressed with the advantages I'm aware of. While I realise that there is no magical solution for every diving task, I have been surprised at how steep a learning curve many compentant divers find it to be. While I don't noramally worry too much about the levels of task loading, it seem that the decision should be much more thoughtfull, and while a try dive might be fun, it would not really clear up the longer term questions I have. I will plug on with my research and eventually the money and inclination might arrive at the same time.


Andrew

[Skeletor]

Thanks all for the positive comments.

At the risk of opening myself up to some criticism, I went into the course with a lot less experience than most. I started diving 18 months ago and only have about 110 dives.
So why did I cross over ? Well, I believe that I am a reasonably competent diver and most importantly, I know my limits. I don’t have any great fixation on ‘going deep’, but I do confess to getting more from the ‘bigger’dives (obviously this being relative – a big dive for me is 25 mins at 45m). The way my diving is developing, it seems obvious that I will be looking to do my trimix ticket in the next year or so, not so much to go deeper, just to have a clearer head.
On open circuit, this would have meant not only the cost of the course, but then the gas bills on top.
The simple fact is that I like the idea of re-breathers and the advantages that they bring, so sooner or later I would have crossed over anyway. If I had have done the OC mix first, I would then have had to take a season or more off to learn how to dive the unit properly.
Doing it this way, I learn to dive the unit first, whilst still being able to take advantage of many of the reasons for wanting it in the first place. (warm, quiet, 3 hours NDL at 20m etc). I can build relevant experience gradually and eventually progress through to trimix, without having to take ‘time off’ and look forward to the benefits of small gas bills.

I’m off diving this weekend to get myself better aquainted with ‘the evil one’, thought the earlier problem seems to be sorted. Nothing glamorous, just a bimble around Dosthill to practice sneaking up on fish.

ATB,

John

[beanie]

bloody good idea if you ask me if you start earlier you ain't got bad habits and confedance

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by John Hart

The simple fact is that I like the idea of re-breathers and the advantages that they bring, so sooner or later I would have crossed over anyway.
I’m off diving this weekend to get myself better aquainted with ‘the evil one’, thought the earlier problem seems to be sorted. Nothing glamorous, just a bimble around Dosthill to practice sneaking up on fish.

Welcome to the Yellow Side. It's disconcerting at first but it grows on you. I initially thought I would only use it for those 'special' dives but frankly a 6m bimble is better done on the rebreather than searching out a full tank of air.
Yes you get some jokes when the club discover you are diving 18m on 18/40 trimix but it's cheaper than keeping swapping DIL as I spend far more on 'lime than on helium.
Don't just do simple noddy dives and expect that to constitute practise. The whole problem with the CCR is that it is just too easy (keep this a secret or we loose our 'elite' status). If you start getting bored signal your buddy *Drill* and have your own major failure. Put in the hours on semi-closed and manual modes so when something really breaks you just sigh and think "here we go again". Likewise diving on minimum loop. Sometimes the courses are so disaster oriented you don't get time to work on this one but bottoming out the counterlungs always says 'handset time' and keeps you out of trouble.
My turtle has been bundles of fun and improved my enjoyment of diving massively. Yes it has annoyed me when things have gone wrong and the simple idea that aprés dive I dumped the rig on the patio, pointed the hose at it and it was clean has gone <sigh> but you pay for your pleasures. If I get a phone call friday evening asking "Do you want to dive this weekend?" the answer can be yes and then I ask what we're diving.

nigelH

[Lisa]

Hi John

When I did my try dive, I had no ADV and forgot to put in any air as I went down the slope on the shore dive. I breathed in and the tube flatterned. That was scary, very scary. I spent the rest of the dive (60 minutes) hating the thing, wishing I was on the surface and manually injecting air even though I didn't need to.

My husband (Paul) and Beanie were also planning to buy one. By the time I had changed and got back to the shop I had agreed to buy one. Not because I liked it but because I knew Paul and Beanie were going to buy one and I needed to dive with them (not a good reason to buy it I know).

I started the course knowing I was going to find it hard and not really sure what I would think of the unit at the end of the course.

But half way through the course, it all fell into place and I fell in love with my unit. I love it totally. I have had a couple of scares on it, but I know I made the right move. I feel much better after each dive, I was getting a lot of aches (not bends) after using OC trimix, as the kit weighs more than me.

We have all taken it slowly, we spent the winter doing 20 to 25m dives and getting to know our kit again. We have cusomised it and I am now happy with my kit, although I will change it again soon. I have done a 40m dive on it but was very unhappy as I was narked so aborted the dive straight away. So I will stay at 30 - 35m untill I do the trimix on it.

I am glad you have stuck with it and hope you will continue to do so. All I can say is that one day you will suddenly feel at ease on it and start enjoying the dives again. I agree with diving with yellow box divers as buddies as that really does help you understand your unit.

As for AP themselves, I can not fault them, they have been so helpful and quick with any problems or questions we have had. Also we found going on the AP prue Insperation weekend was very good and we learnt alot.

have fun and enjoy the Yellow Box

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by zaksherlock

I think when you look into the benefits and the counter arguments a lot of people end up with;


1. More efficient Deco. This one is a bit of an interesting one and depends heavily upon your beleif/understanding of the benefits of constant PO2 vs toggling your tox load. Not all of us use our breathers to run truly constant PO2.

2. Simplicity of logistics for gas supply. This is a definite one, my drive tanks will last me 5 dives at a push, although I normally re-fill after 4 (sometimes 2 for deepies). My bailout tanks were blown about 2 years ago.... You also tend to escape depth specific mixes.

3. Warm, moist breathing gas. Another definite, on top of feeling nice, this is beneficial to your lungs.

4. Less weight to carry. Erm, I'd have to disagree, unless you're going alpinist. You can make savings on weight by going to a team bailout strategy though.

5. More options for bailout. This is a double edged sword, in my opinion breathers make for more options, but for some people, that can be a bad thing. the breather is a tool and you have to train appropriately to make best use of it.

You need to consider if a breather is really needed for what you want to do. Typically for anything down to 40m, you will carry MORE tanks with the breather than OC to acheive the same level of bailout.

Having said that, its great for those trips to places where gas may be troublesome.


/Zak

You forgot the cost saving

Having nearly completed my third season of trimix diving I have discovered that it can get a tad expensive. My first season I was doing the odd trimix dive with no cert and just sticking 20% -25% in to keep my head from spinning on 45 -50m dives. Then I got the entry level ticket and did a few 60's and now a 50 seems a shallow dive and we are planning 70s with a couple of 80+ in between. All of a sudden I am looking at twin 15s of 50% + helium and even stages with helium in. Shop prices my next dive is costing £92in gas for a 65m dive. Same dive on CCR what £10 max?

That’s a saving of £82 on one dive.

Then there are the sets and deco bottles. I now have three twin sets and that is not enough. I am often blowing 235 bar twin 12 tanks to 260 and I have one set blown to 275 for a 70m dive that was canned. That’s because I have only one set of 15's and you need 15's to do that kind of depth.

So two twin 12s, two twin 15s, with manifolds, quick release clamps SS bands etc, about £1400.00

Then there is deco gas, I have two 12 litre, two 10 litre, two 7 litre and a 3 litre for deco gas. That’s about £600 worth of tanks

AND IT’S NOT ENOUGH

Dive trip next week is two 60+ dives off Lime Regis then a 45m off of Ramsgate. So twin 15s and twin 12s blown silly for the first two days then twin 12s for the Ramsgate trip. But for deco I will be forced to have 10ltr 32 travel with 7ltr of 80% blown silly for two dives and I am left with the choice of a single 12 of 50 or left over deco gas and a short bottom time for the Friday not ideal. I need more deco tanks.


If like me you do 20+ 50m+ trimix dives a year and you save on average £50 per dive that’s the unit paid for in gas in three years. If like me you factor in the equipment saving for multi dive trips you would pay for the unit in two years. Whilst I am sure there are repair and maintenance issues on top of these simplistic figures don’t we have them with OC as well?

ATB

Mark Chase

[Andy Phillips]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

You forgot the cost saving

left with the choice of a single 12 of 50 or left over deco gas and a short bottom time for the Friday not ideal. I need more deco tanks.

Mark Chase

You should worry, I haven't got any deco gas for Friday, going to have to get another tin. This is getting silly.

Andrew

[Skeletor]

You forgot the cost saving

I would add one more thing to that . . . value for money.

When you actually do the sums, taking all factors into the equation, such as travelling, gas, boat, equipment depreciation, servicing, training, etc. etc. etc. spent over the course of a year and divide by the actual in (sea)water time, every hour costs a hell of a lot of cash (not to mention the fact that the time I have available to dive is severely limited by family and work commitments)
Living as far from the coast as is about possible in the U.K., when I do get there, I want to get the most out of it. Buying the rebreather, I suddenly have the potential to get far more inwater time for my 'investment'.

Things have started to come together on the unit following the weekend. It was the first dive after completing the course. I think being away from the training environment meant that I was more relaxed knowing that I was not going to have to respond to some disaster scenario every 5 mins. I spent about 75 mins just swimming about in the bottom of Dosthill, throwing in a few drills every now and again and finishing with an ascent from 22m on OC bailout, including safety stops.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that I 'love' my unit yet, but we are becoming better freinds.

By the way Lisa, I have seen the picures of your unit on Beanies link . . . . fantastic ! I almost feel ashamed to have gone for the black.

ATB,

John

[wreckweasel]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

You forgot the cost saving

Mark Chase

Doh!

You mean cost is an issue for some mix divers?

Warilda, 55m 90 mins in water. Burnt through 200L O2 (big flushes) and 150L of 10/52.... oh and half a scrubber fill <grins>

it basically comes down to cost, warmth, more bailout options(!) and gas logistics. For me, the biggy is gas logistics and frankly, I enjoy diving no-bubbles!