HSE regulations for dive training

[John N]

A friend of mine attended an HSE meeting a couple of days ago to clarify HSE regulations for diving operations.
I don't have the full details yet but it seems that there are a lot of grey areas.

They were pretty specific on confined water training though apparently.

Since PADI calls confined water training 'dives', the HSE contends that they should be treated as a dive with all the requirements that that entails. This is despite the fact that confined water training doesn't usually meet PADIs standard definition of a dive regarding depth.
For instance, all confined water dives should be logged by the instructor and DM.
Additionally, there must be present a person with HSE first aid at work qualifications, not just someone with the EFR qualification for instance.

I'll post more detail when I have it, but the question is, do you fully understand all the HSE requirements that you must meet when training divers, even in confined water?

[Mal Bridgeman]

Originally Posted by John Nortcliff

I'll post more detail when I have it, but the question is, do you fully understand all the HSE requirements that you must meet when training divers, even in confined water?

Hi John,

I was going to vote...."Completely adhere to them".... till I got to the bit about logging confined water dives.
Do you know more specifics around that...e.g. do they have to be recorded in which case I am ok....because the shop records all divers in the pool.....or do you think they have to be logged in a "personal" way like proper open water dives.

If the latter then I will need to start logging about 1000 extra dives ... surely that can't be the case.

Mal

[John N]

I don't think you have to log it in your personal log book, but I think you and your assistant must personally record details of the 'dives'.

I don't have the full details yet, but I will post them when I get them.

[Narked@50]

Just to muddy the water, I went to a talk by the guy who covers diving for the HSE in the north of England as part of a BSAC sceminar. He was quite distinctive about the difference between proffesional and amateur instructors, and made it very clear the HSE did differentiate between the two, but also that if there was an incident they would seek to clarify the status of the instructor and the training.

I took that as meaning: If your getting any kind of payment it's professional, so don't try it on. Equally he made it clear he wanted to help us stay safe, and that some of the cases he had been involved in were so far off the mark that common scence was just not present at any level.

There is a link to the diving section on the HSE web page for full details, any gray areas can be sorted by giving the guy a call, he was very forward about it - and he's a diver and instructor himself.

James

[John N]

It isn't straightforward though.

If you take two separate groups out in Open Water, you need the usual first aid personnel and kit.
If however one group has an incident, there also needs to be a procedure to immediately recall the other group.
The reason is that now your personnel and kit are in use and therefore not available to the other group.

As far as 'professional' training goes, you don't need cash in your hand to be 'at work'.
If one of the students pays your entry to the site or even gives you free transport there it could be considered as 'payment in kind'.

A lot of it will come down to a judgement call on the part of the person in charge of the project. This can't be resolved by talking to the HSE beforehand but will be considered after an incident.

Whether an incident is caused by a complete lack of common sense or a minor infraction of their interpretation of the rules, I would still expect that the HSE would 'go for it'.

As an aside, is it logical that only instructors being paid on basically minimum wage must follow these rules when 'non-professional' instructors don't have to?

[nigelH]

I don't have HSE medical.
BSAC Assistant Instructor.

[jptaylor9]

[Mark Powell]

Originally Posted by John Nortcliff

As far as 'professional' training goes, you don't need cash in your hand to be 'at work'.
If one of the students pays your entry to the site or even gives you free transport there it could be considered as 'payment in kind'.

The HSE are not trying to catch out genuine clubs who are teaching their members. What they are after is the commercial instructors who are trying to avoid following HSE regulations by claiming they are a 'club'.

If you are a genuine BSAC/SAA or other volunteer club then the HSE have better things to do than chase after you.

[Mark Powell]

If you are a commercial instructor then the following may help.

http://www.sita.org.uk/publications/...DANCE_BOOK.pdf

[cadburysegg]

I've heard conflicting stories about my situation - I'm a PADI Instructor but do the bulk of my work abroad. If I want to teach a friend to dive for fun and as a pretty-much 'one-off' occurence, and I don't receive any benefit (cash or in kind) from doing so, does the fact that I'm a PADI Instructor as opposed to, say, a BSAC Instructor, mean I have to adhere to HSE regs?