BSAC Instructor Advice

[MattS]

Check out dives are an absolute must, a lesson I have learnt far too many times. At the end I will provide an honest critique. If I feel my buddy is a danger to himself and all those that buddy him I will diplomatically inform him of such.

The DO can allow a crossover to dive past his BSAC limits if there is evidence of experience established in the depth range. The AOW asking to be allowed to dive to 30m who does not have a log book or one that only shows 15m dives, is going to get a short answer. If they can't accept that our concern is both for their safety and that of their potential buddies, well perhaps they should question why they joined a dive club where the DO assumes responsibility whether we like it or not.

[MattS]

I had done CBL's as an Ocean Diver.

I should hope so, it is in the sylabus after all. ODs are trained to rescue themselves in the scenario of a properly marshalled dive. They are taught CBL and static inwater AV. They are trained to summon assistance from the surface cover, who will send a swimmer to tow and blow or move the boat closer to them.

I think that an OW/AOW capable of diving to 20m+ would be capable of learning CBL, tow and blow as part of the checkout procedure. Certainly that is what I have done in the past.

Personally, with the number of crossovers on the increase I would like to see the procedure formalised. A short mini-course including intro to BSAC and club structure, responsibilities to other club members, deco tables, basic rescue training. These lessons are supposed to be taught prior to starting SD but they seem to be neglected leading to misunderstanding.

[Gavin Smith]

Originally Posted by MattS

I should hope so, it is in the sylabus after all.

Sorry I meant PADI OWD.

Gavin

[Woz]

Originally Posted by MattS

A short mini-course including intro to BSAC and club structure, responsibilities to other club members, deco tables, basic rescue training. These lessons are supposed to be taught prior to starting SD but they seem to be neglected leading to misunderstanding.

We do just this.

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by garethwoodruff

By the way, were you at the Boat Handling course at Whitby last September?

Nope, but I know you from the Advanced Diver lectures in Leamington last Autumn (unless i'm getting my courses mixed up too...) :O)

David

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by MattS

ODs are trained [...] static inwater AV.

Thats not in the current OD syllabus, maybe you're thinking of an old Club or Novice syllabus? OD's do CBLs and tows and things, but nothing like AV unless individual instructors are adding that themself.

Originally Posted by MattS

Personally, with the number of crossovers on the increase I would like to see the procedure formalised. A short mini-course including intro to BSAC and club structure, responsibilities to other club members, deco tables, basic rescue training.

I thought that was a formalised procedure...? Admittedly I always thought it wasn't very well stated or supported from HQ (ie they get nothing to say they've done it unless they're doing it prior to starting the next course up). I think BSAC could perhaps let them get the crossover certificate without buying a full training pack - we get a few who want to dive with us but don't want to do any further training straight away. We still make them do the crossover, but when they ask for their certificate have to tell them that none exists unless they want to pay £xx for a plastic card. As we have to charge them to cover the costs of drysuits, pool time, lecture materials, minibus, etc, then it would be nice if we could give them something at the end of it to say they've done it.

David

[TerryH]

Here's the dilema which will sooner or later end up with somebody getting
fingers burnt.

PADI AOW with 30m rating comes along as a guest.
PADI AOW with 30m rating joins BSAC, but stays where he is and just dives.
PADI AOW with 30m rating joins BSAC and starts training towards Sports.

Skill isnt the issue. This is a bona-fide diver who might have 1000 dives,
many at 30m. So as a DO/DM what depth would you allow them to dive at?

Logic says 30m for the guest and 20m for the member yes?
But isnt SALT only for when you continue training?

So that will be 30m for guest and just diving member and 20m for Sport
diver trainee. Is that right?

Well heres the problem/dilemma.
BSAC have only one published method of comparison between other agency
diver grades, the SALT table. They say that a diver who wishes to train
with BSAC must be seen as an Ocean diver and stop at 20m. What
possible difference does it make if he is a "diving only" member or a guest????

BSAC have made a statement of comparison. Given an incident where
expert witnesses ask the question as to what an AOW equates to, are
they going to ignore SALT and say its just for those doing training? Or are
they going to take this as a definative statement that says AOW = Ocean &
20m?

Bottom line here is that no mattrer who you ask and that includes HQ, you
will not get a definative awnser (I've had three different versions over the
years).

So sorry to say that based on that info, I wouldnt go over 20m, but would
make very sure that there was plenty of good quality dives in that range
and get him/her through Sport and onto progression ASAP.

Probably not what you want to hear, but grey areas are one thing. A grey
area from BSAC itself, hmm too dodgy. Stick at 20m.

Rgds
TerryH
BSAC Inst.

[chrisch]

I think Terry is probably right on the BSAC side of things. I will add a swerve ball and and say that PADI AOW has a PADI "recommended" depth of 30M but it is a 40M qual esp if combined with PADI Deep Diver. (We can debate the seriousness of the Deep Diver course on another thread if you like!!!)

Now look at it from the joining diver's point of view. You have 400+ logged dives, 25 or more over 30M. You own all your own kit and dive regularly. Some chump in the beezac says "you can't dive past 20M - its the rules". If the person doesn't want to carry on to SD they're hardly likley to join are they?

That's an issue for BSAC to solve if it cares.

For this specific chap I would have thought the 30M dive could be "the check out dive" with a DL or similar - does that "bend" the rules enough to get him on board??? Just a thought!!

Chris

[garethwoodruff]

Thanks for the advice........

Hmmmm, Good point I should have added some flesh onto the bones. From memory the guy has about 40 dives, a couple in the UK.

The club has a trip to Swanage in September and as part of it we will be diving the Kyarra.

One of the issues we have is that we don't have enough trips at Ocean Diver level, and this will be a good one, even if its not.

I'm sure that he will have another 10 or 15 dives by then, and dived up ready for it. If its a question of competence, then its clearly a no.

I must admit reading the threads, I'm inclined to think that its probably better to get him upto Sports Diver first.

I might fire off an e-mail to BSAC HQ about this one, should provide a bit of interest!!!