BSAC Instructor Advice

[garethwoodruff]

Hi Folks,

I could do with some advice. We have got a guy who is joining the club as a PADI AOW, he is going to do the Sports Diver course in the Autumn.

He's dead keen to dive from now which is great and of course he's qualified to do so. I know BSAC is keen for Divers to dive with other qualifications, but according to the equivalent qualifications table, a PADI AOW is equivalent to Ocean Diver.

Can he dive on a club trip to 30Meters, which his qualification allows him to do?

I've got a law degree and I'm struggling with the different information on this one

I suspect it might be a DO's discretion, but no idea.

[Woz]

Good question. We get a big inrush of PADI qualified people into our club in September/October so we always organise a "crossover dive" at Stoney where an instructor will take in the new diver and check out how good they are, basic skills etc as quite alot of people turn up with a ticket they did on their hols but have forgotten alot so need a refresher.

I think it depends on the diver. A checkout dive reveals ever such a lot- sometimes even before you get in the water.

[turbanator]

I've had two different replies on this from HQ.

One was he should only dive to his equivalent grade in the BS-AC, as there is no exact sign over and he's training to be a SD, then he should dive as an OD.

The other was he can dive to his grade outside of the bs-ac !

A DO's discretion/compromise may be to let him do the dive to 30m, but wih a DL or one of your experienced SDs.

hth
Paul

[Nick Kay]

I'm with Woz here:

1. I'd get them to do a "check" dive with one of your instructors / DO

2. (obviously), check out their Log Book - what dives have they done / when / what conditions?

3. (obviously), an appropriate buddy...

4. Having done all of the above, get the DO's approval (in advance)

[Scuby]

Originally Posted by garethwoodruff

Can he dive on a club trip to 30Meters, which his qualification allows him to do?

As Woz says we always do a dive with them first to make sure they really can dive (and success rate isn't initially all that high with a lot of people we get in!). If they're fine on that though then personally I wouldn't have a problem with them doing it - they are simply diving within their PADI qualifications.

David

[Woz]

Originally Posted by Scuby

(and success rate isn't initially all that high with a lot of people we get in!).

The number we get in who have done an OW course and can't put a reg onto a cylinder is scary. AOW is a bit more advanced so fair enough- the competence is usually better. But there are some differences between BSAC diving and PADI diving at a very basic level which have to get sorted out- octopus stowage, buddy check, snorkels (ha ha ha) etc.

Above AOW that we get coming along are normally pretty competent and switched on to "thinking" about their diving which is the first major hurdle to get most people to clamber over, from whatever agency.

[garethwoodruff]

I was thinking of taking him into a quarry for a bit of a dive one evening, just to get an idea of his skill level.

He's dead keen, I suppose get him a few shallower dives with the club, then if he's upto speed let him dive to the 30m mark. Should have time to sort his kit out if need be and mabe get him to realise that a snorkel is an optional extra and not required

I think the DO's more bothered about competence, if he's ok then I recon she will be pretty relaxed about it.

The good thing is he actually wants to do the Sports Diver course and even sat in on a Nitrox Course I was teaching last week and contributed to it which was pretty cool.

[Scuby]

I've changed my mind a bit...

After I posted my last post, I thought that the DO would probably be more concerned about actual rules / liability / etc rather than necessarily what we'd get away with. Which got me thinking. Ignore any rule BSAC may have on crossovers for a minute, and look at a small risk assessment:

For the crossover diver: trained through a major agency to dive to 30m, will have familiarity with cold water kit (after the little check dive) and so generally local conditions will be ok, and hopefully undertake slow progression to that depth / conditions. So they should be fine, and you could probably show that in a court if anything did happen to them underwater.

However...

For their buddy: diving with a non-rescue trained diver (ie AOW/OD) below BSAC recommended depth limits (20m). Should this buddy have a problem, they may be at 30m, with a buddy with no skills to rescue them safely. In that case, there may be consequences for whoever (ie the DO) who authorised the dive. From 20m they may have a reasonable chance of surviving if the crossover buddy bodged an attempted rescue. From 30m, those chances are lower, and so need to be considered.

So...

To make the dive safe you need to ensure that the buddy is suitably experienced and qualified, with their own independent backup gas and basically kitted out for essentially solo diving / rescue. Alternatively, diving as a 3 with someone else who could rescue the buddy if necessary, although of course you'd then have to consider the implications of the extra diver.

Coming from a different (more paranoyed, concerned-about-consequences-of-problems) angle, its not so simple, but a reasonable risk-assessment should cover those problems if you look at it properly in advance. However, the DO may consider it more effort than its worth - although something like what i've written (very roughly and incomplete) above could be kept on-file at the club and applied to all future crossovers.

David

[garethwoodruff]

Thanks David,

Yes I agree with the theme of what you have said there.

He is not going to be rescue qualified and all BSAC divers that are down at +20 meters will have had rescue training before increasing depth experience (or should have!).

If you follow the BSAC Crossover then you are following the guidelines, so you should be legally safe ish....

The question is "is it safe" is a good one, with no rescue training his buddy would have to rely on their own skills to get them out of trouble. At 25meters, IMVHO I would have thought a Pony was the minumum required, so the buddy would carry some redundancy.

So is a member of the club happy to dive at 30meters, effectively solo. Diving in a 3 in my opinion is the more dangerous of the options (had some interesting experiences). Propbably the best option would be dive with an instructor with plenty of redundancy and move onto Sports and rescue stuff asap..... (with mabe starting that as early as possible).

Hmmm conclusion is I am now confused

By the way, were you at the Boat Handling course at Whitby last September?

G

[Gavin Smith]

Whilst formally he may have no rescue training that may not be the case in practise.

I had done CBL's as an Ocean Diver. I know there are "rules" but I think it's important to look at people's experience he may well have 500 UK dives under his belt - the initial post gives none of this information.

Oh and I'm not an instructor so what would I know.

Gavin