Pro Insurance & HSE Medical - When?

[yellowduke]

A question for the active PADI pro's out there. At what stage does a trainee DM need to have PADI approved professional insurance and a HSE medical?

Jim

[sch]

Originally Posted by yellowduke

A question for the active PADI pro's out there. At what stage does a trainee DM need to have PADI approved professional insurance and a HSE medical?

Jim

Jim,
ok easy bit - you'll need the HSE as soon as you start working as a DM. Note this doesn't necessarily mean getting paid (cash, air fills, free boat spaces, sticky buns). Basically as soon as you start assisting in the water, you'll need the medical.

Now as for the insurance - my understanding is that as a DM its not a requirement to have insurance in place, however its a very good idea. If you're going to be working for someone, ask if there insurance covers you. Otherwise look at DAN, rather than the PADI recommended one.


Simon

[yellowduke]

Ah now this is the bit I don't understand. As part of my training I am assisting in the water, I have completed my skills assessment, but I am not at work I am paying for this. I get air and dive site fees paid for the same as any other student as they are included in course costs so aren't a form of payment. Since I am not yet a 'professional' diver do I really need a HSE medical?

Jim

[sch]

Originally Posted by yellowduke

Ah now this is the bit I don't understand. As part of my training I am assisting in the water, I have completed my skills assessment, but I am not at work I am paying for this. I get air and dive site fees paid for the same as any other student as they are included in course costs so aren't a form of payment. Since I am not yet a 'professional' diver do I really need a HSE medical?

Jim

I know, its good isn't it.

OK, I guess you're acting as safety diver on a course (the usual way DM's are used in the UK.)

The way that the HSE explain this is that since the instructor needs a safety diver in the water (i.e. the DM) as part of HSE requirements. Since the instructor cannot perform his duties without the DM, the DM is part of the diving project and hence is seen to be at work.

The getting paid part is actually seen as irrelevant, its the duties that you are performing that make you a working diver.

Simon

[sch]

Ahh, I hadn't seen that you were still in training. This is where it can get a bit sticky, and I suspect it depends upon whether you are the only DM in the water.

If there is a qualified DM in the water, then I suspect you could argue that you don't need the HSE - although I'm sure that the HSE might have a different view. However, if you are the only DM in the water then I'm pretty certain that the HSE would say that you needed a medical.

Simon

[Rob Dobson]

I went through this earlier in the year.... In the UK you need a HSE medical in order to complete your DMT *if* you are assisting with *real* students.

If your DM course is taught purely with "mock" students- i.e qualified divers pretending to be students for your benefit then you don't need a HSE medical. However, if at any point you are working on real courses with real paying students then you need a HSE medical as you are seen as being "at work".

Outside the UK you don't need this as the HSE doesn't apply.

HTH.

[yellowduke]

Mmm, not a very satisfactory state of affairs is it. A BSAC Dive Leader, equivalent to PADI DM, or instructor doesn't need it as BSAC aren't deemed to be at work. Don't know how the HSE can distinguish like that. To my mind if I am at work I am getting paid. If I am paying to do a course, albeit leading to a professional level qualification, I am not at work!

Ah well have contacted e-med to sort out a medical now. Will probably have finished the course by the time I get an appointment!

Jim

[Tank Girl]

Most of the advice previously given is correct.

However...

HSE accept that you cannot be a diver at work and a paying customer at the same time. Therefore if you are acting as a safety diver (for DWR97 requirements) as a legitimate part of your DM course, i.e. not something that you have already completed, not something additional to the requirements of the programme and not using the 'I'm in training' excuse for not having an HSE medical, then you do not need an HSE medical.

HSE have made it very clear that in the event of an investigation into the activities of DMTs acting as safety divers they will be very thorough and prosecute anyone claiming to be under instruction as a DMT when they are not, or are carrying out duties beyond the stated requirements of the DM programme.

Ultimately, because this would effectively put you as a DMT into a very grey area of the law the HSE recommend that you err on the side of caution and have an approved medical regardless.

Personally, IMHO, as you are going to need an HSE approved medical to act as a DM in the UK, and you need a medical to even enrol onto the Divemaster programme in the first place, kill two birds with one stone and have an HSE medical from day one. No grey areas and complete peace of mind knowing that you are fit enough and totally legal from the start.

TG