Confined Water Padi OW - Conundrum

[PADI-Paddy]

Originally Posted by Janos

And do we also agree that PADI should suspend instructors in some cases while their cases are investigated, just as some suspects are imprisoned while their cases are investigated?

Janos

In certain cases yes of course they should. I have no problems with that whatsoever.


Paddy

[jph6969]

Originally Posted by PADI-Paddy

For me Jason this is were your arguement falls flat on its face. In LAW you are innocent until proven guilty. You talk about murder, if I was arrested for murder there is no obligation on me to prove anything, in fact there is no obligation on me to say anything. The bottom line is this. The state have to prove beyond reasonable doubt my guilt. It is the states job. I dont have to do anything. There is no obligation on me whatsoever.

As an RAF policeman I would have thought you would know about this. It is the cornerstone of the British Legal System.

Robert

Actually I am now an EX RAF policeman, and yes I do know about the cornerstone of the British Legal System, that doesn't detract from the reality of what would actually happen. I avoided saying it earlier as it seems like just semantics but when you are arrested for anything you are arrested on 'suspicion' i.e. suspicion of murder.

That word suspicion, is in fact what maintains the 'your innocent until proven guilty', the reality in the scenario I outlined earlier is very different, not least because you are an employee of the state, trained to carry arms for the state and acting on behalf of the state. You are also subject to military law as well as the law of the country, and if you are posted abroad, subject to the law of that country.

This is all semantics, the bottom line is the reality that you would be arrested and you would remain in custody until the investigation either, a) Charged you with some offence or b) released you due to lack of any/enough evidence to charge you with any offence.

Translating this back to the original topic, the Instructor concerned should be reported to one or more authorities ( PADI/HSE/POLICE) so that they can determine, through investigation, the correct course of action. The instructor concerned should welcome the investigation as part of ensuring that the training standards are maintained. And whilst I believe that PADI would do everything possible to ensure that this doesn't happen again (even if it turns out it didn't actually happen this time) if the injured party does not feel satisfied with the PADI answer then they should report the matter to the police.

Jason

[PADI-Paddy]

Originally Posted by jph6969

Actually I am now an EX RAF policeman, and yes I do know about the cornerstone of the British Legal System, that doesn't detract from the reality of what would actually happen. I avoided saying it earlier as it seems like just semantics but when you are arrested for anything you are arrested on 'suspicion' i.e. suspicion of murder.

That word suspicion, is in fact what maintains the 'your innocent until proven guilty', the reality in the scenario I outlined earlier is very different, not least because you are an employee of the state, trained to carry arms for the state and acting on behalf of the state. You are also subject to military law as well as the law of the country, and if you are posted abroad, subject to the law of that country.

This is all semantics, the bottom line is the reality that you would be arrested and you would remain in custody until the investigation either, a) Charged you with some offence or b) released you due to lack of any/enough evidence to charge you with any offence.

Translating this back to the original topic, the Instructor concerned should be reported to one or more authorities ( PADI/HSE/POLICE) so that they can determine, through investigation, the correct course of action. The instructor concerned should welcome the investigation as part of ensuring that the training standards are maintained. And whilst I believe that PADI would do everything possible to ensure that this doesn't happen again (even if it turns out it didn't actually happen this time) if the injured party does not feel satisfied with the PADI answer then they should report the matter to the police.

Jason

With respect what you are saying now is the complete opposite to what your earlier post revealed. Regardless of wether you have broken a Brit Military Law or Brit Civil Criminal Law (and not including foreigns countries) you are still covered by the European Human Rights Legislation with ALL its protections.

in relation to the PADI instructor the HSE appear not to be interested. PADI themselves have taken the details and will start an investigation. But for christs sake what have the police to do with this ??

I have no doubt the police would tell you to piss off if you went to them with this problem of sore ears from diving and tried to report it as an assault. They would tell you to catch yourself on. !!!!




Paddy