Instructor fees

[stewbie]

I haven't got an issue with BSAC per se. I have an issue with the posters who seem to think there is a distinction between a PADI instructor working for free and a BSAC instructor working for free.

The arguement about professional vs club is a load of horse pooh to be honest.

BSAC - when I went there as a rescue diver I was told I had to join as an ocean diver, that I had to pay a club joining fee which covered my training to sports diver, plus an annual subscription. This amounted to pretty much the same as a PADI OW course.

As a new diver, I have the option of paying BSAC or paying PADI to learn to dive.

If I want to be stupid, I can argue with people - do you want to learn to dive with an instructor who has been assessed to an internationally recognised standard, who is assessed by a doctor as being classed as fit to dive and to a fitness level deemed to be as acceptable to rescue a student, and who pays a subscription fee every year to keep up to date with the latest techniques. They have a love of diving and chose to spread this as long as they get their diving for free.

Do you want to learn through a club environment with people who love diving to the extent that they have bettered themselves and want to pass on their love of diving for "free" with only reasonable expenses refunded.

This is the root of the arguement. You can argue that the "Professional"instructor is being belittled by people who chose to teach for free. Why should BSAC be seen as amateur when their training deals with the same basic standards as PADI, SSI, NAUI and every other dive agency. I don't think their instructors are any less professional in their approach than I or any other PADI instructor. I wouldn't be seen as non-professional if I taught for free as a BSAC instructor, so why should I be seen that way if I volunteer as a PADI professional. I work just as hard to ensure that the quality and safety of my training is second to none.

I'm a bit bored of this now - I don't care if instructors working for free annoy Garf or Mark Powell. TDI is a niche industry, and doesn't cater for new divers. I remember once when an instructor refused to match a price he'd offered to people at the dive show for me to attend a course. Lets see - course still running, extra person is pure profit, but I won't price match cos it wasn't at the dive show. Result - loss of cash for the instructor. What does that say about that instructor. I think he was a pratt rather than upkeeping the "value" of the instructor. You an be a good dive instructor but have no clue about the realities of business.
Maybe the TDI crew could train people from scratch rather than complain about the people who introduce people to diving. After all, we are only grooming your future clients?

Effectively my employer is working for free training me in tec. He hasn't a problem cos he loves diving. I love diving, and I want to propogate that love.

You come and take a scared an nervous person, take them through confined, and coax them into open water. You see the look of pride on their face when they pass cos they deserved to. Thats all the payment I need - and sod the people who think this gift belittles anyone.

[Paulus]

I would venture that some of the instructors who currently receive payment for their services will find that they, as the recession digs deeper, will be given a harsh choice: stand firm and insist on payment while watching their LDS go to the wall or go the way that many of the poorer LDS instructors go and do it for love alone.

Part of the driving force behind the recent popularity of Scuba Diving has been it's affordabillity. Economics would suggest that simply enforcing higher costs on instruction will price many prospective students out of the market and many LDS out of existence.

Perhaps some would welcome much smaller UK diving industry which excludes all but true "professionals" from active service.

Paul

(ex LDS groupie)

[hammerheads]

This seems to be a religion, politics and is there life in outer space argument in that its not going to be settled ever.

An interesting point raised above though perhaps if the recession pushes the dive centres not paying thier instructors because they cant afford to, to the wall then perhaps only the proper professional outfits paying their staff will be left standing.

Ive worked both sides of the fence and I can honestly say that there is no comparison from my experience between getting paid and not getting paid to teach in terms of what it delivers to the students.

The last centre I was at was clique and everyone worked for free to line the dive centre owners pockets and keep them in free holidays some of the instructors there thought they were Gods gift to diving sadly they had egos that did not match ability. Instructors trying to stiff each other for brownie points it was awful. The dive centre owner was selling a dream which they themself had long lost sight of, it was no more than a production line who failed to teach people to dive in fact most of the students were just dragged along the bottom by instructors at Stoney for two days and then certified.

Compared to now being at a school which pays and hand picks its instructors. Instructors opinions are sought and valued.The team work is awesome, no cliques and I would happily dive with any of the students we teach and qualify as we teach them to dive.

I might just have been unlucky with my earlier school and got lucky with my current school.

Perhaps some of the some Instructors not getting paid are just simply not good enough to qualify for any form payment for services rendered so to speak. They may have passed an IE but I am sure we have all come across these zero to hero instructors who quite frankly could barely find their arse with both hands and someone shouting directions to assist them let alone teach. The ability to pass an IE does not by default make someone a good instructor. I know of Instructors at a certain centre who have never dived off the coast of this country their only open water dives in the UK is at Stoney Cove now that just cant be right

[Barbel]

Well said mate.

I ahve only been diving and i thought it would be nice to build up to the level of a teacher. I looked at this option to find that it would only take me around 3 months if i could do it in a lump. How woyuld this give me the experience etc to help new divers. We all know school teachers that after years of trainning are still crap at there job.

As it id i am a diabetic and can not teach so all this is not really relavant.

[Snapper]

Hi! I have been reading this thread with interest. I am thinking about qualifying as an Instructor and have offers/encouragement from both my BSAC DO and a PADI school (where I have helped as a DM) ... but which route do I choose? Many thanks, Snapper

[hammerheads]

I would go down the PADI route then you can always crossover but if you go down the BSAC route to teach PADI Courses you will still need to do an IE.

Barbel are you sure you cant teach I know a PADI Instructor who is Diabetic and he is cleared to dive and teach with a HSE Medical

[James The Badger]

Originally Posted by stewbie

I love diving, and I want to propogate that love.

You come and take a scared an nervous person, take them through confined, and coax them into open water. You see the look of pride on their face when they pass cos they deserved to. Thats all the payment I need - and sod the people who think this gift belittles anyone.

Bollocks (sorry mate)

I love beer, the man who makes beer loves beer. Beer still costs money, why do the brewey not produce it for love alone? Love does not pay the rent. Well it can but thats off topic...

It cost me a frickin fortune to become a IDCS, if I teach a quality course then I would like to be paid as professional at the going rate. No cost = No Value

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by James The Badger

Bollocks (sorry mate)

I love beer, the man who makes beer loves beer. Beer still costs money, why do the brewey not produce it for love alone? Love does not pay the rent. Well it can but thats off topic...

It cost me a frickin fortune to become a IDCS, if I teach a quality course then I would like to be paid as professional at the going rate. No cost = No Value