Heliox electronics for the KISS

[finbar.taylor]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Bailout parachute / solenoids is interesting but I remember the chap doing his Advanced Wreck diving course on the KISS with Mark Powell during our Zenobia trip (bugger i forget his name ill have to go look) saying he got into all sorts of bother when task loaded and could see the benefit of ECCR in those conditions.
HUD and back up solenoids I would imagine come in very handy when shooting Video. That is one thing that can really grab 100% of your attention if your not careful.
ATB
Mark Chase

I'm guessing that was me!

I agree with alot of the stuff written here particularly about ECCR keeping you alive when distracted by somthing else or the HUD telling you your going to die when distracted.

I belive the analogy I was using in cyprus is if you got stuck like AndyP did half way through a hole with your arms stuck the hud would tell you to add O2 but be unable to reach the add valve (yeh you good go open loop) the ECCR would give you time to think how stupid you were getting stuck in a hole and possibly pull faces at the guy filimg you trying to get out!

Fin

[wreckweasel]

Originally Posted by Janos

I'm in no way a "luddite" unlike some who describe themselves as such

The luddite bit was intended as ironic, its amazing how everyone assumes its true. My background was safety critical systems engineering/testing and nowadays its cutting edge telco technologies. One thing thats come out of playing with incredibly complex systems is seeing them fail in ways that are hard to fault find. I always think divers have a water activated stupidity gene as well, so simplifying things works for me, hence why I chose the KISS.

I can see the benefit of a HUD, but I've yet to see an implementation with the KISS that I both like and consider to be at an acceptable price point.

As for ECCR, theres some things on the KISS that I'd fix first (water traps/dumps for example).




/Zak

[Janos]

Originally Posted by wreckweasel

The luddite bit was intended as ironic

Well you should put your hand above your head so that people realise then...

Originally Posted by Zak

As for ECCR, theres some things on the KISS that I'd fix first (water traps/dumps for example).

For water traps, I wonder if you could make a thicker bottom for the scrubber cannister, and use it to house an overpressurisation valve. The internal dimensions of the scrubber would stay the same, just that there would be a two inch thick base. To dump water you would go vertical and breathe our hard.

It might even be possible to reach the OPV, which would be even better.

I'd like one, but I think I'll wait for a little while...

Janos

[wreckweasel]

Originally Posted by Janos

Well you should put your hand above your head so that people realise then...

No no nooo, thats my underwater chicken impression. Fool

Re; thicker base... I've had similar thoughts....

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Janos

Well you should put your hand above your head so that people realise then...



For water traps, I wonder if you could make a thicker bottom for the scrubber cannister, and use it to house an overpressurisation valve. The internal dimensions of the scrubber would stay the same, just that there would be a two inch thick base. To dump water you would go vertical and breathe our hard.

It might even be possible to reach the OPV, which would be even better.

I'd like one, but I think I'll wait for a little while...

Janos

I think someone tried that (or at least said they were), have a look at the RBW archives. Personally I'd rather see it go into the exhale bag but without major work I can't see how you'd do it. I'm not so worried about it for loop recovery as I've had a couple of big floods and the scrubber still worked -- though the big problem was that the loop volume was greatly reduced. Being able to dump condensate for a longer dive might however be useful.

As for HUDs, I'm still not convinced. Things tend to move slowly on a rebreather and sudden events tend to make themselves known. Normal handset monitoring should catch most loop problems before they become problems.

When it's come to mods to my KISS, my rule of thumb is can I do it in 10min without any penetration of the unit and will be able to undo it and leave the unit in its original state. Otherwise I don't. As yet what I've done so far is add a rubber dil hose and an offboard dil connection to the manifold (which I'm going to undo).

I'm a great believer in getting the right tool for the right job rather than trying to jury rig something else. The market for used rebreathers, especially KISS and YBOD, is in a condition that you'll probably get your hand bitten off, so no-one is stuck with a mistake. If I thought that my KISS, straight out the box was not suitable for the diving I was doing then it would go straight on ebay. I bet I would get pretty close to what I paid for it, if not more.

I suppose the same thing goes on with OC, lots of people seem to recoil at an unmodified, simple twinset set-up. Fettling is the pox of most divers. I went through a homebuilding phase and bought a commercial RB because I can't be arsed. I'm a lazy sod at heart

[RichClark]

Originally Posted by smudger

*Uri's HUD - i think we'd all agree that its the nuts, but pricey!
Uri's HUd means you have to open up another hole in the Breather and it uses a piggyback system so loads of faliure points that ant it looks untidy( sad I know)
*Bruce Partridges shearwater handset with CK kidney and HUD
The Sheerwater I must admit just didnt like the display and I think the HUD only works off 1 cell*rEvo's hud (See post from Paul at RBW)
r Evo's ??

Theese ar my own views and the dive drive looks most like the finished article IMHO..

Hi Smudger,

rEvo, has been designed by a guy that posts on RBW - I've been helping him translate his doc's into English so I know a little about it. There are a few threads about it and also pic in the RBW gallery, I'll post a link when I find them. Here

With regards to the Shearwater, it will monitor across all three cells, below is a couple of emails that Bruce sent me.

I am sending this to people who sent an information request to me about the Shearwater GF at info@rebreather.ca.

We have been working hard to get the Shearwater GF ready for shipment, but it just hasn't happened. The hardware and software has been complete for over a month, but we just don't have cases yet. We have a design in place, but by the time we finish testing the case, it will probably be March before we can start shipping.

So far, I have received over 50 requests for information and pricing. When we are ready to ship, I will start from the top of that list and offer it to each of them in turn. If most of the people end up buying one, it may be into May or June before I fill them all.

The price will be $1,300 US. That will include OC/CC Trimix. It will also include text/spreadsheet logging as long as you have an IrDA port on your Windows PC. We will probably only support Windows 2000 and newer, but that may change.

Enhanced logging and dive planning will be available at an extra cost from GAP.

The cable to connect to one or three remote sensors will be extra, but I don't have a cost yet. Since the Fischer connector is expensive, and making cables is a manual process, the price will certainly be in the hundreds.
The good news is that the remote sensing is already enabled in the computer, and if you want to make you own cable, that is fine with me. It will also be compatible with a VR3 cable.

There is a manual for the Shadow Pac III version at http://www.rebreatherworld.com/shado...omputer-manual
.html

The wrist computer has several differences, but it will give you a little more idea about the detailed function if you are interested. For example, on the wrist computer there is a function to turn remote monitoring on and off.

The brochure (which most of you have seen) is available at http://www.rebreather.ca/Brochure_Wrist.pdf

and

I got several questions about the connection to external sensors. I will try to clarify.

I expect that the computer will be sold to several different users types.
Some people will dive it as an open circuit computer with the expectation that they will buy a rebreather some day.

Some will use it stand-alone with a semi-closed or closed circuit rebreather. And some will attach it to their rebreather with external monitoring. In the last group, some will attach it to their existing VR3 connection and monitor one sensor, and some will add a new single sensor connection. The final group is those who plan to attach it to their Sports KISS or Classic KISS as a replacement for the existing displays.

The computer is sold as a separate unit with no external monitoring cable.
As the above paragraph suggests, there will need to be several external monitoring options available.

1) None. The user will buy a Fischer connector kit and make his own.

2) None. The user will plug his existing VR3 cable into the Shearwater.

3) Minimal. The user will buy a connector and cable and connect the wire to one sensor herself. They may connect it to a Dolphin or other unit.

4) Classic KISS. The user will want a kit complete with the kidney. It can just be bolted on. The existing displays will be available as a backup.

5) Sport KISS. The user will want a kit complete with the triple connector.
It can just be bolted on. The existing displays will be available as a backup.

Each of these options will have a different price. I don't have my costs on that yet. I will be buying kidneys and triple connectors from Gordon, and providing them. They are slightly different from the standard, but plug compatible.

In all cases, all software features in the computer are enabled. Unlike some competitors, there are no unlock codes for features. The logging, trimix, and remote monitoring are enabled in the standard unit. In order to do logging, there is no extra hardware or cabling required as long as your computer has an industry-standard IrDA port.

Finally, there is also a HUD in the works. It will monitor all three sensors. I don't have any dates for that, but the boards are done and a preliminary case is designed. It will be available as and option with either of the KISS kits. I don't know any more than that at the moment.


Bruce Partridge
Shearwater Research Inc.

The problem with the Shearwater as I see it, is two fold. One it's still vaporware and has been set back by Gordons death (Gordon was making the case for the computer) Two, it moves away from the KISS philosophy and uses one single display rather than three independent PO2 displays.

Cheers

Rich