kiss

[steve-k]

<font color='#000080'>just been checking the price of the kiss


£2600.00 for the unit
£100.00 for shipping


+ you will need
2 tanks (2 or 3ltr) with din valves, 1 left 1 right(170)
and a set of wings(400)
and the o2 sensors(120)

so thats adding up to about £3400.00

oh yes, and you will probably be hit for uk vat, i will have to check, but i think its 6% (if its clased as conponants/spairs) that will be another 150.00

totalling £3550.00 getting close to thr £3800.00 for the desperation




hmmmm still cant make my mind up

[nitrox]

<font color='#0000FF'>up to you mate.

the decision can only be yours.
i know which way i'd go though, and it would definately be to innerspace.com.

possibly a little more than what you were planning on shelling out but in my opinion well worth it and a snazzy little black unit it is too.

hth

mark &nbsp;

[Digger]

You must already have 2 tanks you could do the job with, and is a set of wings really £400? Buddy Redwing is £100 on my books, don't know if we're talking the same wings tho.

Would it be possible to plug 6l tanks onto it? Because I've got a couple that I was going to use for my home build, and doing the sums, I'm going to be into that sort of territory anyway. Probably better to get the pros to build the main section, and then I can customise.

So, if I use my tanks and wing that I already have, and buy the rest, I'm still under 3 grand. That's not bad. It's my 21st coming up... Bugger, there's 3 0s on the end of £3000. I'll have to find another way, methinks.

I could get everyone I know to chip in for the main bit, and I could get the rest, couldn't I? It might get near to that sort of figure, if both my mates put in a grand

[steve-k]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Digger @ Aug. 08 2003,00:14)]You must already have 2 tanks you could do the job with, and is a set of wings really £400? Buddy Redwing is £100 on my books, don't know if we're talking the same wings tho.

<font color='#000080'>apparantly a 2l tank will last you 5 hours, the limating factor is the scrubber, with a life of 3 hours (not that i ever want to do a 3 hour dive)

i was talking about my wings, dive rite superwing, double bladder, they where 550 ish when i bought them, but i have been told they are about 400/450 ish now

i have sutable tanks 2*3ltr
and the wings

so it would cost me about 2800
looking about the same price as a second hand desperation



whats the going rate for second hand equipment?
twin12s just in test all banded and manafolded with a remote isolator (i was thinking 300)
drager ray, as new, with oxygage, 2 tanks, and all the bits (just under 2k of kit, i was thinking 1000)]

but then its only worth what someone will pay

[Dominic]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Would it be possible to plug 6l tanks onto it?

If you really wanted to, you could plug 15s into it - the Kiss will take any cylinder size.
If you factor in the cost it would be for buying everything the Kiss uses, then it ain't cheap. But since it's meant to be put onto a wing &amp; backplate using Apeks regs, I'm already well ahead of the game
However, when it comes to choosing rebreathers, the general advice I've seen from RB divers is, work out exactly what you want from a rebreather and then buy the best choice.
Cost is irrelevant.
It's just convenient that if I do ever decide to get a rebreather, it'll be the Kiss, the cheapest on the market

[daz]

I don't want to start a slanging match or argument but can someone summerise the main differences, advantages and disadvantages of the different CCR's available. &nbsp;

Things like O2 sensors, handsets, scrubber duration etc..

Daz

[Dominic]

Well, the single biggest advantage of the Inspiration is it's got a CE mark, which means it's endorsed by all agencies. No other rebreather can actually be officially used in this country under recreational agency guidelines.

It also has more testing behind it than any other rebreather I'm aware of, which is why they can absolutely gaurantee a scrubber will last as long as they say it will. It's also why they recommend only one oxygen sensor - GI3 likes to say this is a money-making scheme to make you buy sensors from APV, when it's simply that any other sensors will void your CE marking.

And it's computer controlled, so unles something goes wrong with it, you never have to do anything other than adding diluent on descent. And when they release their ADV (or have they already?) you won't even have to do that.

THe KISS has no electronics that can go wrong, and is entirely user-controlled, so it's impossible to become complacent - you have to keep checking the displays, because if you don't, you WILL get the wrong mix. This is the feature you either love or hate - it's more task loading, but less reliance on the 'breather.

It also has back-mounted counterlungs, which you either love because it keeps your chest uncluttered or hate because it has a higher work of breathing that the Inspiration's over-the-shoulder design.

It has a mouthpiece with OC bailout built into it, or you could replace that with the &quot;snog valve&quot;, a tongue-operated control that let's you add Oxygen or diluent by pushing it with your tongue. It also has a built-in ADV.

Scrubber duration is a bit dicey on the KISS, as it's not actually been tested quite so much as the Inspiration, but I believe it's meant to be longer...

The Meg I don't know so much about, but I believe it's a bit like an inspiration with a deco computer built in. And it's potentially got an enormously long scrubber duration.

That's it AIUI. DOubtless someone who actually dives with the things can tell you more than I can

Myself, if I ever buy a RB, I suspect it'll be a KISS...

[Rob Evans]

Dom's summed it up a treat I'd say.
The KISS divers I've talked to had to spend a fair bit of time intitially setting up the flow rate on the KISS valve to their O2 consumption, but once done they've not had to adjust it since.  The flow rate is set to ever so slightly lower than their consumption rate so over the course of a dive their PPO2 will slowly decay, but not to that significant a degree. Unless they're under heavy workload, when O2 consumption might increase to quite a bit higher than initial calculations. Still not a major problem if they're monitoring their PO2 on a regular basis, they just add more O2 manually to get things sensible again.  The ECCRs (Electronic CCRs such as the Inspiration, Meg, Cis et al) have an advantage in these conditions as they're actively maintaining the setpoint you've set them for.
I'm not entirely happy with the concept of manually adding O2 at 50+m - a short blast of O2 at those sort of depths can ramp your PO2 well past 1.6 unless you're very careful. ECCRs don't have this problem as they're able through software to put in wee tiny squirts of O2 as and when required.  But then you're reliant on the O2 cells functioning correctly. Which they will, if you've been following the correct procedures. The KISS is not reliant on O2 cells per se (though only a fool would ignore their readings), so life is simpler in that respect.


Back-mounted lungs - well I can only speak for the (admittedly biased, we ALL are) owners. They don't have a problem with. them. Established knowledge states the the over-the-shoulder type works better and who am I to argue, but it doesn't seem that big an issue.
As for ADVs, the Inspiration has a (CE tested) one that can be ordered with a new unit or retrofitted to an existing box. The KISS and Meg have them built in- admittedly not CE, but based around existing tried &amp; tested 2nd stages.

Swings and roundabouts mate.

The Inspiration, Meg and KISS are all excellent units - in the end it can only be down to personal choice weighing up the factors that matter to you as an individual. Mind you, the YBOD's common as muck nowadays

[daz]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Dominic @ Aug. 08 2003,20:06)]t has a mouthpiece with OC bailout built into it, or you could replace that with the &quot;snog valve&quot;, a tongue-operated control that let's you add Oxygen or diluent by pushing it with your tongue. It also has a built-in ADV.

Well I am quite passionate about my kit but I've yet to be caught french kissing it &nbsp;


Thanks Dom and Rob,

Useful info one and all.. &nbsp;be a while before I go down that route I suspect :-
&quot;Hi love, you know that new kitchen you wanted, well guess what I got instead?&quot; &nbsp;

Always nice to understand what is happening in the rebreather market though, afterall I might have a long lost rich relative leave me all the money in their will &nbsp;

Daz

[Digger]

Steve-k, i think that one or two of your numbers are out by a little. I can get new anioflded twin 12s at about the £350 mark, and with some shopping around I reckon I can beat that.

Don't know a lot about rebreather prices second hand, but I'll give you £600 now. Might have to talk to the bank manager first, but I can do that easy.

AS for buying Dive-Rite wings, not worth the money for me. I like my Buddy wings, cheap and cheerful. And orange. You could get a very, very nice wing for that sort of money, are you into Dive-Rite that much?

I think it's Digger bed-time. Too much shandy and not enough sleep. &nbsp;