KISS Rebreather

[Duncan]

Are there any KISS users on YD? im trying to find out more about thses units - from people how are diving them in the uk.
Most of the websites with KISS type rebreathers on explain the benifits of manual CCR over electronic, but theres not much info on the drawback of the system (are there any) eg. maximum depth, gases that can be used, reliability etc

   Anybody offer any answers??

[Dominic]

I was going to start a post for Mark Chase about some posts to the Rebreather list... but what the hell, I'll post them here instead, they answer some of your questions..

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Hello List,

Myself and my buddy are looking to go ccr within the next year or so, we are
both trimix qualified but still dive deepish air now and again.
We live and dive in the UK, although travelling overseas to purchase a unit
and or training courses would not be a problem.
We are at present favouring the KISS rebreather although neither of us has
actually had the pleasure of seeing a KISS in the flesh so information about
the unit has all been from Magazines & and the Net.
We very much like the Kiss's clutter and computer free approach which seems
a good solution to the diving we do. Although a couple of points we need to
answer;
1. I have been hearing various comments about the depth rating of the unit
(70M max or modified to make 100M max) are these correct? what are the
limitations of the unit?
2. is the unit available without OC bailout built into the mouthpiece?
Blanking plug??
3. What's the current price of a unit? (Canadian dollars?)
4. Do you have a UK agent? (not a problem as i would rather fly over to
collect than ship a unit) but if there are any units/users in the UK I'd
like to get their opinions
5. Can you suggest any reasons not to use a KISS rebreather for Deep trimix
diving?
If anyone as any help advice on our next step into the rebreather diving
world then we would be pleased to hear from you,

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Theres shedloads of KISS units in the UK.... its not uncommon to see 6
on one boat. I've punted your mail onto the KISS list, to see who's
nearest to you...

As for replies, since no-one has volunteered yet, I'll parade my
ignorance for all to mock.


> 1. I have been hearing various comments about the depth
> rating of the unit (70M max or modified to make 100M max) are
> these correct? what are the limitations of the unit?

Typically, the old orifice tended to max out around 75m (depends on your
O2 metabolic rate). I believe gordons current typically maxes out at
around 100-110m. If you want deeper, theres a couple of options, which
essentially remove the depth limit from an O2 supply perspective.

1. plumb in an extra (compensated) 1st stage and manually add O2 from
this.
2. Use Kevin Juergensens Hammerhead for the KISS
3. Use one of the other couple of solutions that are knocking around in
the design stage (watch this space, Im sure they'll chirp up)

> 2. is the unit available without OC bailout built into the
> mouthpiece? Blanking plug??

No idea. Why would you want to? Its a very nice small compact DSV and
its a real benefit to be able to bail off at the flick of a switch. An
option could be to use an inspiration mouthpiece instead, I know of at
least one user who's done this.

> 3. What's the current price of a unit? (Canadian dollars?)

http://www.jetsam.ca    Get gordons email and ask him

> 4. Do you have a UK agent? (not a problem as i would rather
> fly over to collect than ship a unit) but if there are any
> units/users in the UK I'd like to get their opinions

Its not legal to sell non CE approved kit in the UK <cough cough>

> 5. Can you suggest any reasons not to use a KISS rebreather
> for Deep trimix diving?

Erm, because bubbles are great for annoying jelly fish? Seriously, I
personally think CCR is the most effective way of managing this sort of
diving. For me, its proven to be cheaper, warmer, quieter and
logistically far simpler for weekends away.


> If anyone as any help advice on our
> next step into the rebreather diving world then we would be
> pleased to hear from you, Looking forward to your replies Andy Clarke
>

Erm, buy a new unit from gordon, give it to me and you can have my
trusty proven reliable unit ready to go. It'll save you all the hassle
of having the new backlit handsets, the new O2 injector etc

Your original email mentioned training (which I managed to snip out). If
you wanted this in the UK, I beleive steve copeland
(http://www.nobubbles.com) and martin robson( http://www.eau2.com) both
offer courses. I decided to get training and did so with martin, highly
recommended.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]> Typically, the old orifice tended to max out around 75m (depends on your
O2 metabolic rate). I believe gordons current typically maxes out at around
100-110m.

As Zak had mentioned, it is a function of IP of the non-compensated reg. Use
smaller orifice with higher IP (max 12-12.5 bar for Apeks DS4) will get you
past 100m.

> 1. plumb in an extra (compensated) 1st stage and manually add O2 from
this.

Ala Rick Stanton's method. Need to include a relative larger orifice in-line
from the compensated reg as well to limit the O2 flow; otherwise, you will
need quick hands.

> 2. Use Kevin Juergensens Hammerhead for the KISS

By far the best option once it is available (soon). Not only it enhances the
max depth, it also serve as a fail-safe if the main orifice failed/clogged.
Also, you will have the world-only GF-algo CC-trimix computer as well.

> 3. Use one of the other couple of solutions that are knocking around in
the design stage (watch this space, Im sure they'll chirp up)

Bruce Partridge is working on a KISS controller, so is another KISS owner
but he hasn't made any public announcement yet.

> 2. is the unit available without OC bailout built into the mouthpiece?
Blanking plug??

Why ? If you don't like it (no idea why), you could always sell it as there
will be plenty of people want to buy it.

> 5. Can you suggest any reasons not to use a KISS rebreather for Deep
trimix diving?

Define deep. It has been dove past 110m in a cave as well as ocean...

I recently attended a dive conference where someone mentioned that he
doesn't want to use "garage-built" gears like KISS, HH, etc. I didn't want
to tell him to pull his head out from his a*$e and compare to see how
well-made anything from Gordon to his Inspiration.

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]This reminds me .. the ark was built by amateurs, not even in the garage but
in the yard, and the Titanic was built by experts!!!

Go figure

[Duncan]

Thanks Dom,
      Seems to answer most of what i was asking - the email that you quoted from andy clarke was a copy of the mail i sent to jetsam industries ( havent heard back yet) and to andy which he said he'd posted on a rebreather forum - small world.
  Anyway cheers for the info, my email address is duncan@vincent1691.fsnet.co.uk if you could sent it onto the kiss list with andy's that would be great

[Mark Chase]

Yes thanks Dom

I have received most of these in my Email from the rebreather site. I still havent figured out how the damed site works but at least I am gettig relevent info

ATB

Mark Chase

[wreckweasel]

Duncs,

Suprised you're not asking Rick

Anyway, one of the replies quoted was mine...... so if theres anything else you want to know....

[Duncan Price]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (zaksherlock @ Jan. 07 2004,19:07)]Suprised you're not asking Rick

<font color='#8D38C9'>Wrong Duncan I think - I've dived with Rick when he's been using his KISS and used it once in a pool in Florida. &nbsp;Nice unit but unsuitable for my purposes.

Duncan Price

[wreckweasel]

Bloody caving world is full of duncans.... &nbsp;

Neofleece... check
Cylinders.... check
Krabs........ &nbsp;check
scram....... &nbsp;check
duncan..... &nbsp; check