New EC nitrox regulation

[siltmonkey]

It seems that next year there will a new EC regulation that will enforce a different cylinder valve and regulator connection to be used for any gas with more oxygen than standard air.

Can anyone shed any light on this please?

cheers

[Fathoms Down]

I really must get my finger out and get this web page written  

Ok, the proposal is that all Oxygen clean cylinders must be fitted with a different type of DIN valve to prevent oxygen being put in to non O2 cylinders (which is done during partial pressure Nitrox blending).

The new cylinder valves which have been proposed have the thread on cylinder rather than on the reg (as we currently have). A letter sent to members of the Uk dive industry by the HSE states that the final descision will be made this September and the new valves will be phased in over the next five years.

There is a lot of confusion about the new valves so don't worry too much yet. I spoke with SITA at LIDS and they say that they are considering opposing the new valves on safety grounds and there is a rumour that Posideon will not be supporting the new valves.

[Dominic]

That sounds hopeful - maybe the first step in getting diving separated from industrial compressed gases at last...?

If it's true that a 25 DIN can be fitted into a 26 valve, I can't see how it can be considered a safety measure - more of an accident waiting to happen..

[Mark Powell]

SITA tell me that there is a meeting of the HSE, SITA, Diving Agencies (BSAC, SAA, PADI, TDI, etc), major manufacturers, etc in the next few weeks.

HSE's position is that if this is an EC Standard and was adopted as a British Standard then they would have no choice but to implement it even if they didn't agree with it. They voted against it at the preliminary stage but were outvoted.

The best result is that if all the relevant UK parties tell the HSE that the standard is unworkable and cannot be implemented. HSE could then go back to the CEN committee and request a change.

So the best thing we can do is to lobby the Agencies and manufacturers to declare that it is unworkable. I believe that BSAC and SAA agree with this position, I don't know about PADI. It also seems that Poseiden are taking the same view. Again I'm not sure about the other manufacturers.

[siltmonkey]

Thanks guys



r

[one_tc]

I already have an adaptor which will screw into an M26 cylinder and accept an M25 Din reg.


Tim

[gibbon]

In the post above it is pointed out that adaptors already exist so can anyone explain how a new valve is going to keep a cylinder from becoming contaminated?

IMHO People, technology and process all need to be aligned, changing the technology alone is not going to solve anything.

[John N]

You will not be allowed to use adaptors - well dive shops won't to fill cylinders anyway.

The whole thing is bollox.

There will not be any improvement in safety.

Even the HSE argued against it.

If it is implemented, divers will find a way around it.

A thread on the cylinder is a stupid idea - how easy to damage?

Just carry on as normal - if this is implemented I will eat my hat.

PS "People, technology and process all need to be aligned" - nice line, are you a consultant perchance?

[gibbon]

Originally Posted by John N

You will not be allowed to use adaptors - well dive shops won't to fill cylinders anyway.

Janos - this thread was referenced from another thread hence it has come back from the dead :-)

Not allowed... is that like A-Clamp to 300BAR adaptors?

That is a bit unfair as I have never seen such a device in a shop, but on boats with dirty compressors I have.

Originally Posted by John N

The whole thing is bollox.

I agree

Originally Posted by John N

A thread on the cylinder is a stupid idea - how easy to damage?

You have lost me there all cylinders have threads

Originally Posted by John N

Just carry on as normal - if this is implemented I will eat my hat.

Phew I could see this being implemented within the week :-)

Originally Posted by John N

PS "People, technology and process all need to be aligned" - nice line, are you a consultant perchance?

Maybe sometimes, and it is just as applicable to this as anything else :-)

The other thread was What to fill an o2 clean cylinder with?

if this solution of a new thread size was in place it would have stopped the question or any confusion. It will not stop people from doing their own thing, IMO the main problem is where the two groups meet and exchange ideas or equipment.

In the other thread the Doctor says that he does not O2 clean anything yet he pumps O2 to 230BAR, on the surface this seems very scary if you are a believer in O2 cleaning, and if you are on the fence could be taken as proof that the Doctor is correct and O2 cleaning is a load of bollox.

If the Doctor always buys new cylinders, and then only fills them with bottled O2, He and well filltered air then he is probably quite right to state that O2 cleaning is not required in his world.

I somehow doubt the Doctor would buy a second hand cylinder from a closed down dive school that had a reputaion for bad air and treat it in the same way as he currently implies without inspecting and cleaning atleast the worst of the muck out of it.

The lines have to be drawn somewhere as a guide for industry but are probably way tighter than they need to be for most tec/recreational divers who have their own cylinders as they are unlikely to have a 1000 fills in a year.

With regard to the process, I dont think that an anual cleaning is unreasonable for commercially used O2 clean cylinders.

It is upto the dive industry to educate the people involved to follow the processes, the technology will help enforce that at expense of new valves for everyone, one gray area is the role of Internet Forums like this one in the education of divers that said I dont think that anyone (with more than 1/2 a brain) who fills cylinders for a living (? oops) is likely to be misled by either a forum or a magic "O2 clean" thread of the physical variety.


A new valve - No thanks!

[John N]

Does anyone know where I can buy a rice paper hat?