Incident discussions

[wreckweasel]

So its looking pointless then?

For anyone interested in incident analysis, there is a discussion area on http://www.thedecostop.com and theres a yahoo group dedicated to diving accidents.

[Crisspy Fiver]

I think in the big scheme of things the incident section if it goes ahead don’t just have to be about death. Its going to be a good place to post all those other things that go wrong from lost buddies to free flows and how you delt with them.

I have posted reports about incidents that have happened to me. Well I think I posted one about my DSMB getting caught up. I have read other reports on here about people going to the pot and these are all useful. In one of them I read it’s a good idea to carry say £20.00 in your under suit. I never really thought before that if I goto the pot im going to have no money for when I get out so this was one useful tip I have picked up.

Hopefully by having such a section discussions about divers dying will be at a minimum.

On the point about getting sued and stuff (im not being flippant here) how comes the American site such as deco stop can run reports from all over the world about deaths and they are not being sued? Well maybe they are but it don’t seem like it.

This is certainly an emotional subject. But one other thought that springs to mind is an
extract from the book Shadow Divers. Well Im sure its from there. But basically John Chatterton or is it Richie Kohler reads every incident report and discuss incidents with as many people as he can to make himself a better diver. I truly believe we all have space to learn more and have always got so much to learn.

Jamie

[ray]

Hi/


I do not think it is a good idea, you become bar room Barristers, learn from any official report that is published.

If you need to learn from other peoples misfortune, then it might be better to start your scuba training again, as clearly you are lacking in your diving skills, a lot of accidents if that is what you want to call them, are from divers doing something that they shouldn't, and you should already no! not to do it, including techie diving without proper training or knowledge. I am not impressed by divers who say they have trained themselves in the techie type of diving, if that is what you have done OK its up to you, but spare me the indignation and flaming, I have been diving to long to listen to you and seen to much.

Or they may have a medical problem that manifests itself at an unfortunate time.

Others fall into kit failure etc and this can happen to any one of us, or may self inflicted, don't get your kit serviced, throw it into the garage when you have done your dive until next time you want it, then eventually you might become a statistic, thats why every body should dive rebreathers you have!!! to look after you kit on every dive or you will die!.

Wait for the official report, read it and hope diving incidents happen less by making sure you are trained properly, and you look after your self.

Rant over go ahead and flame me, Im off to pub anyway.

[MattS]

I have to say I am against the discussion of fatal diving incidents on web forums.

Apart from the morally questionable idea of a kangaroo coroners court, there is also the issue of life assurance. I don't think anyone wants to see YD become a valuable resource for lawyers.

I doubt anything new would be learnt as the vast majority of incidents (including the non-fatal ones) are caused by mistakes which are repeated year on year. The BSAC reports may not be perfect but they are a sample of incidents which will include examples of those that are not reported.

I will suggest a compromise, not because I like the idea, but because I REALLY don't want a web forum discussing current fatalities.

How about an incident discussion forum for non-fatal incidents only. Perhaps it could be used to collate some of the incidents that do not make it to the BSAC reports.

Just in case I was not clear.
I really do not want a web forum discussing current fatalities.

[Darren A]

Originally Posted by wreckweasel

So its looking pointless then?

.

From reading this thread I don't get that impression. Sure there are a few who, for their own stated reasons, are against it, but I think more are in favour.

Could be wrong - usually am!

[PW1664]

I know the suggestion and most of the contribution is well intentioned.

I think however the reality is that most of us have a morbid interest in this type of discussion, albeit that we would not like to admit it. It is a human trait when tragedy occurs.

If it was to truly learn from what has happened to others we would wait to get the facts. When the facts are not forthcoming, speculation cannot replace them.

Locking the thread will only serve to increase rumour I think...

[Darren27]

Maybe whats needed is somewhere to review the HSE/Coroners report after it is published. We may have to wait a year or so to see it but at least all the facts would be there. People could take lessons away from the incident but without any risk of speculation or possibly opening yourself, or the board in general, to possible legal problems.

In non fatal incidents if people wish to post to start a debate thats all well and good, but in fatal incidents, unless there was an euipment failure which could occur again,eg a new style of reg with a design fault, then I dont see why we cant wait till the report is published.

[Neill]

I have read some convincing arguments. I am inclined to read and learn but I think Keith L makes the most coherent argument so on the balance of risks I would rather we had a discussion about concluded investigations. We do not want to have to close a sub forum after damage has been done.

On balance I say no.

Neill

[hopper]

IMHO if your stance is that anything learn't in a discussion has to be of benefit and may help to reduce a fatality then it should stand to reason that the discussion is based soley on fact and not supposition. To this end I believe any discussion (on fatalities) should be on proven facts that are in the public demain ie after an inquest when any public report is available.

I would welcome a thread discussing incidents, maybe just maybe (with respect) if people previously had access to discussions on proven FACTS we might not be having this discussion now.

On a legal sideline (not being a lawyer of any sort) I would have thought that a public discussion (or one behind a members only section) could be seen as predjudicial to any inquest. I would have thought that any witness would certainly not be allowed to contribute to the discussion or indeed read it if you allow discussions on incidents that have not completed their full judicial course. (but there again I could be wrong!!)

I would also have thought that a popup box would be required prior to any post going live requesting the contributer to check the box to state that anything they post is purely their opinions and not the opinions of YD in any way.

That said, a discussion board on incidents would be benficial to all.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by ray

Hi/




If you need to learn from other peoples misfortune, then it might be better to start your scuba training again, as clearly you are lacking in your diving skills, a lot of accidents if that is what you want to call them, are from divers doing something that they shouldn't, and you should already no! not to do it, including techie diving without proper training or knowledge.

Rant over go ahead and flame me, Im off to pub anyway.

When you get back from the pub - can you tell me when I will ever stop learning? Every single piece of information I glean, whether from buddies, magazines or forums - I hope goes to make me a better diver.
For me read " Forum - noun virtual pub - everyone welcome - take everything with a pinch of salt. "