The Great O2 Practices Debate

[Humber Coastguard]

If a diver requests to go on oxygen for safety reasons it implies that he/she believes that they have pushed the decompression boundaries and is concerned that they may suffer a hit if they don't breathe oxygen.

The dive boat skipper was quite right in wanting to give us, the Coastguard, a heads-up. Should the diver subsequently show symptoms then if we are prepared we can get the diver to the chamber quicker. Bear in mind that Rescue Helicopters are not sitting on the tarmac with their engines ticking over waiting for a diver to get a bend, they may be out on another job.

When the Coastguard is alerted to the fact that a diver has made a fast ascent, has missed a stop or is showing symptoms of DCI we put the Diver/Dive Marshal in direct contact with the Duty Diving Specialist at the Institute of Naval Medicine. They will then discuss the dive profile and symptoms, or absence of symptoms, and the doctor will decide whether the diver should be evacuated or not.

If there are no symptoms and the dive profile was reasonably safe (not a lot of missed decompression) then the doctor will probably just request that the diver is kept under observation by the other members of the dive party - and by the diver himself.

Don't think that a call to the Coastguard is a guaranteed helicopter ride. Your dive boat skipper is just playing safe, making sure that if you do develop symptoms then we know where the nearest SAR helicopter is, the crew know that they may be tasked and we know which chamber is available - we are prepared.

ALWAYS CALL THE COASTGUARD!

Just one more point. The fact that you have been breathing oxygen may delay the onset of symptoms and you could get a hit while driving home, it has happened. Breathing oxygen has also resulted in divers with no symptoms being flown to the chamber because the doctor was concerned that the oxygen could be masking symptoms.

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by Humber Coastguard

Just one more point. The fact that you have been breathing oxygen may delay the onset of symptoms and you could get a hit while driving home, it has happened. Breathing oxygen has also resulted in divers with no symptoms being flown to the chamber because the doctor was concerned that the oxygen could be masking symptoms.

Thanks for that Paul. Nice to have you on YD!

I visited DDRC many years back and they said that it was possible to test whether someone had been hit or not.

I would therefore suggest that anyone who felt the need to take O2 gets checked out irrespective of the fact they are "feeling better". Get someone else to drive home!!

This debate has clearly shown the need for more divers to get O2 training. It has also pointed out to me the EFR course does not cover O2 admin in enough depth (just renewed EFR two weeks back).

Chris

[Mark Chase]

Nothing wrong with giving the cost guard the heads up but I don’t agree with skippers insisting that if you request 02 you ride home in a chopper.

I have often sat on my 80% when OC or on 100% on the CCR after a dive as I felt tired or had some general feeling of being on the edge. This has nothing to do with "pushing deco" and everything to do with the conditions of the dive, struggling up the ladder in twin 15's and three stages, being tossed across the boat in full dive kit.

During these periods where I chose to stay on an 02 rich mix I have self assessed and had my buddy check me over. I have never once needed the chopper and to my knowledge I have never actually been bent.

Had I asked the skipper for 02 and he insisted on calling the chopper every time I dread to think what the cost would have been to all parties.

If the diver requests 02 he should be assessed and if the cost guard is notified then fine. Then a decision should be made to return to port or scramble the chopper. In all the years of deco diving I have done this has NEVER been a hard decision it’s always blindingly obvious when a scrambled chopper is needed.

If the diver believes he his going to be coppered 100miles away from his car and dive kit just because he thinks he might have a niggle he is going to keep silent and slip deeply into denial. 02 treatment (and it IS treatment) will be delayed possibly for hours and oxygen starved tissue can and does deteriorate possibly to a level beyond treatment.

I have seen several seriously bent divers and admin of 02 didn’t change the "we need a chopper now" prognosis or mask any symptoms of any significance. Skippers who make an issue out of 02 admin are putting divers at risk.

That said I always take my own 02 so I can do my own thing but if I didn’t I would always pay the skipper for the 02 I used. I also sympathise with dive leaders who have to make the choice for novice divers, if in doubt call it in. However for experienced divers there should be some thought before making the call.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Humber Coastguard]

Mark

I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick.

If a diver REQUESTS O2 there is a reason - the diver is worried that they may be liable to suffer from DCI, why else request O2? That fear may be real or imagined but who is to tell which? By informing the Coastguard should the diver's fears become reality we are prepared and can get the diver to a chamber in a much shorter time. That saved time could mean the difference between a full recovery and permanent paralysis or even death.

Let me emphasise, we do not tie up valuable SAR resources and recompression chambers just to inconvenience divers. If a diver doesn't need to go to a chamber he doesn't go. If we sent every diver we got a call about we'd need a lot more helicopters.

Boat skippers who call the Coastguards are not putting diver's lives at risk, the only people who are doing that are the divers themselves by refusing to allow a skipper to call us.

Divers who are concerned about DCI should ENSURE that the Coastguard are informed rather than going into DENIAL.

Paul

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Humber Coastguard

Mark

I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick.

If a diver REQUESTS O2 there is a reason - the diver is worried that they may be liable to suffer from DCI, why else request O2? That fear may be real or imagined but who is to tell which? By informing the Coastguard should the diver's fears become reality we are prepared and can get the diver to a chamber in a much shorter time. That saved time could mean the difference between a full recovery and permanent paralysis or even death.

Let me emphasise, we do not tie up valuable SAR resources and recompression chambers just to piss off divers. If a diver doesn't need to go to a chamber he doesn't go.

Boat skippers who call the Coastguards are not putting diver's lives at risk, the only people who are doing that are the divers themselves.

If a diver is concerned about DCI he/she should dig their heads out of the sand and ENSURE that the Coastguard are informed.

Paul

That’s not what I said. What I said is boat skippers who tell divers (as I have been told in the past) if you ask for 02 I am immediately sending for the chopper... are putting divers health / lives at risk.

If my arm hurts I go on 02
If my leg hurts I go on 02
If I feel dizzy I go on 02
If I feel tierd I go on 02
If my stomach feels bad I go on 02

I am 41 years old and having punched out on a boat for two + hours done a two hour dive and struggled to get back on a rocking and rolling boat with 60kg of equipment on my back I often have these symptoms. My arm hurt I go on 02. 20mins later... It still hurts then I have strained it. again . My arm hurts I go on 02 the pain goes away I come off 02 the pain comes back I call for the chopper. The pain gets worse and worse I call for the chopper.
I keep and eye on my buddy after a dive he keeps an eye on me.

I mean no disrespect you are doing a fantastic job and all sea faring people are deeply indebted to you lads and lasses but are you a diver? People often ask me how you tell if you’re bent. I tell them all the same thing. When it happens trust me you WILL know. I have only spent 5 years doing deco diving of the UK cost but I have already witnessed my fare share of bent divers. There is NO mistaking the ones that need a helicopter ride.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Humber Coastguard]

Mark

Yes I am a diver – 30 years, BSAC First Class Diver and Advanced Instructor. I also owned my own diving centre for eight years – I know what I’m talking about!

If, after a dive, you put yourself on O2 why not tell the Coastguard? What are you afraid of? When you finally get round to calling for a chopper do you think it will miraculously appear over the horizon in a matter of minutes – very unlikely.

Helicopters are not like cars – you don’t just jump in, turn a key and away you go. If the helicopter is on the ground it will take at least 15 minutes to get it in the air plus flying time. If it’s not on the ground it may be on another job at the other side of the country in which case we have start searching for another, which is available. This one may be an hours flying time away, or more – there aren’t that many SAR Helicopters. If there isn’t one available we then have to start thinking about Lifeboats, ambulances, coastguard teams etc. We then need to find a chamber to take you to – again the nearest available may be at the other end of the country.

By the way not all divers who have a bend know that they do. There was a famous case a few years ago where a diver had a really bad cerebral bend but didn’t realise it. Even though the diver was behaving bizarrely the rest of the dive party did nothing to summon help – I believe they were prosecuted.

One last point boat skippers don’t send for choppers. SAR Helicopters are tasked on the recommendation of expert medical advice.

Do yourself a favour Mark, be prepared to admit that you are worried you might have a bend and tell us. If the “arm still hurts” then fair enough but if the “pain comes back” then you’ll get to the chamber so much sooner. You’re the one who could end up paralysed. It’s all about self help.

[Mark Chase]

[quote=Humber Coastguard]Mark

Yes I am a diver – 30 years, BSAC First Class Diver and Advanced Instructor. I also owned my own diving centre for eight years – I know what I’m talking about!

Fair enough

If, after a dive, you put yourself on O2 why not tell the Coastguard? What are you afraid of?

Ending up in Whips Cross with my car in Dover and no improvement on my sholder strain

By the way not all divers who have a bend know that they do. There was a famous case a few years ago where a diver had a really bad cerebral bend but didn’t realise it. Even though the diver was behaving bizarrely the rest of the dive party did nothing to summon help – I believe they were prosecuted.

Yes I read about her. I had an overwelming urge to hit her.

One last point boat skippers don’t send for choppers. SAR Helicopters are tasked on the recommendation of expert medical advice.

I have personaly demanded a helecopter and got one when the docter said go in and take the patent to A&E. The docter said (over the radio) that the diver probably wasent bent and I said bollocks send one now.

The diver had a cerebral bend 21/09/2002 on Girl Grey with Mike Snelling

Do yourself a favour Mark, be prepared to admit that you are worried you might have a bend and tell us. If the “arm still hurts” then fair enough but if the “pain comes back” then you’ll get to the chamber so much sooner. You’re the one who could end up paralysed. It’s all about self help.

I would gladly tell the skippers I know I felt a bit off and gladly tell the cost guard that a diver was on 02 being assesed. I am trying (and failing it seems ) to make the point that skippers who threten any one who asks for 02 with a helecopter ride are putting presure on divers to deny the problem.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Lou]

But no-one has threatened divers with a 'copter ride. the closest anyone has come is saying that if you go on O2 then i call the coastguard. which is what you agree is ok! So i think you are talking in circles.

Everyone would agree that threatening divers with an automatic chopper ride would be wrong - and unreasonable anyway as it wouldn't happen, but no-one has suggested it

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Lou

But no-one has threatened divers with a 'copter ride. the closest anyone has come is saying that if you go on O2 then i call the coastguard. which is what you agree is ok! So i think you are talking in circles.

Everyone would agree that threatening divers with an automatic chopper ride would be wrong - and unreasonable anyway as it wouldn't happen, but no-one has suggested it

I have been SPICIFICLY told in the pre dive breafing by certen south and south west cost boat skipers (and more than one) that the rule of the boat is you ask for 02 you go home on a chopper no arguments.

This is the specific practice I dont like and the one I am refering to. Nothing else.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Fiona]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I have been SPICIFICLY told in the pre dive breafing by certen south and south west cost boat skipers (and more than one) that the rule of the boat is you ask for 02 you go home on a chopper no arguments.


Mark Chase

In that case Mark, I would suggest the skipper is an arse as Paul (HumberCG) has pointed out in more than one post the skipper doesn't make that decision.

I would also really like to know who these skippers are, because I don't know anyone who has told me that.