Calling All Bent Divers

[tom]

Originally Posted by dry suit diver

Yep , most agencies now tell you that a bend is inevitable at some point of your diving, even if you dive well within tables ,limits of puters etc.
its all to do with it being an inexact science.

Really?

None of the agencies I've trained with - PADI (several outfits), TDI or SAA have told me this. What they have all told me however is ways to minimise the likelihood.

I'm willing to bet there isn't a single training agency out there who will tell you a bend is inevitable.

[resting rifleman]

[quote=Humber Coastguard]Mike

I don't have any info about tidal strength etc but here in Humber DSMBs are contributary to about 50% of our DCS incidents. That's not many but if we could reduce them it would make a significant difference to the number of diving incidents we see.

How many divers have problems with DSMBs but don't end up as a Coastguard or BSAC diving incident?


if the number of "diverless bags" recovered is an indication then i would imagine a lot! although divers letting go of the smb if it snags, is probably the cause of many of these "escapee's" (lots of pot markers around some popular local wrecks) and is something that i personaly encourage, (the loss of a few squid is infinitly preferable to a bad sawtooth profile and poss dci
caused by a ripping tide and a hung up blob) and these days many divers carry a spare anyway!

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by tom

Really?

None of the agencies I've trained with - PADI (several outfits), TDI or SAA have told me this. What they have all told me however is ways to minimise the likelihood.

I'm willing to bet there isn't a single training agency out there who will tell you a bend is inevitable.

might not be the official line (if you can get one from PADI) but nearly all the instructors I have known have said that a bend for a diver is inevitable much the same as a fall is inevitable for a jockey .All have also took great attention and detail in explaining how to minimise the liklehood of a bend.

[Hellvet]

Originally Posted by nigelH

What we don't want to do is stigmatise bends as 'your darn fault', although they probably are, or denial will include hiding of symptoms.
Undeserved bends will happen and we have to accept that.

Also for everybody that misses 30mins of stops there are probably five rapid ascents who need to feel good about reporting this so they can be monitored in case problems develop. We will not catch these people when they are treatable unless we are 'business as usual' about it.

"You got bent?" *shrug* "It happens. Now just breath this O2..."

The non-diving community have enough trouble dealing with the fact that you don't neccessarily have to do something wrong to get bent - divers i would hope know better. All i heard from my work colleagues was "Did you come up too quick?" or "you must have been too deep"! Its not that simple - a few years ago PFO's(for example) were virtually unheard of, now most people know of someone directly or indirectly that has/had one. What else is there out there physiologically that we don't know is affected by diving/affects our diving?

If you break the rules or the shit hits the fan and you just have to deal with it as best you can, or you just cock up, then you might get bent, but then again you might not - its not that simple...how many rapid ascents/missed deco stops end up with no symptoms at all? Is this luck or an in built resistance to getting bent (for reasons we don't know)?

The original tables were based on fit young males in the services - if youre not 110% fit, if you're female, if you're not 25 any more, then they might not apply to you...

What you need to hear when you get bent is that there is a reason - whether that be you, your body, or your equipment - the difficult bit is when you really don't know why/how you got bent, when you did everything right, and still ended up in the pot?! How do you go back in the water?

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by Hellvet

The original tables were based on fit young males in the services - if youre not 110% fit, if you're female, if you're not 25 any more, then they might not apply to you...

Haldane's original tables were actually based on goats so probably they were much younger than any of us. I believe that the few places that have done comparative tests on older, less fit individuals find no change. Certainly Professor Bühlmann's version of the compartment model predicts no effect.

[Neil M]

Originally Posted by wreckweasel

Acceptable, No
Inevitable, No
Something to be ashamed of, No.

Amen... Green Enroute...

[aquaholic]

Originally Posted by Humber Coastguard

The theme of the thread is WHAT CAUSED YOUR BEND?

Skin bent 1 - after dive to 60m: dehydration, aggressive deco profile.
Skin bent 2 - after dive to 60m: due to Denial(!) diving day after bent 1 - doh!
Skin bent 3: - well, more a case of prickly heat.. four weeks after bent 2.. likely cause exhertion moving dive gear off boat within 1 hour of dive to 55m.
Checked out by DDRC and referred to Peter Wilsmhurst for PFO check. Non found.

Since then no repeat occurance. I now ensure adequate hydration around diving days, dive more conservative profiles and moved to a Rebrather.
Causes were mainly procedural and I have amended my deco profiles accordingly.. longer stop at 21m on 50%, more intermediate stops 18-9m, longer on 100% O2 at 6m with backgas breaks, slow ascent 5 minutes from 6m to surface. No exhertion after diving.

Originally Posted by Humber Coastguard

How many of you, for example, did a fast ascent because of their drysuit and subsequently found they were carrying more lead than was needed? What other causes have resulted in bends?

I consider this a 'new diver' or 'old school diver' issue together with inadequate training. (the same goes for incidents using dSMBs - practice makes perfect...) To analyse this as a cause you would need to record relative diving experience of casualty.

Originally Posted by Humber Coastguard

Are divers now accepting that due to modern diving practices a bend is now an inevitable and acceptable consequence of participating in the sport?

For technical diving - yes, for recreational diving... possibly...
I personally think the more I dive and the deeper I dive the more inevitable a bent becomes... a bit like the lottery - one day your number will come up. Having hit the 'jackpot' I have got more cautious, but my diving has also got deeper with less diving above 50m and so far I have avoided a reoccurance..

A friend of mine recently got a severe neuro bent on a shallow dive after many years of diving regularely on air with nitrox only for deco, but only two years after doing his trimix ticket and starting to go more often below 50m. I do not know if he has a PFO, or if this has been checked out as yet. His profiles on deeper dives were more conservative than mine.. everybody has to find there own comfort zone once getting into trimix... I would go as far as saying we are all guinea pigs when it comes to diving trimix and doing extensive deco times.

For recreational diving, which I understand to be diving nitrox down to 35m, I think the risks of getting bent have generally been reduced, but training issues are becoming more pronounced as the sport diving community has joined the commercial band wagon and reduces training schedules to attract more people into diving.. but that is a different kettle of fish... [takes coat and makes hasty exit....]

Just my 2p worth

[Ron Young]

Twelve years ago, a mate of mine got a 'full blown' spinal bend at 14m and had only been down twenty minutes; he spent 24 hours in the pot and survived. Just shows that it can happen to anyone at any depth. He was and is a very fit guy too. He still 'dives' in rivers for Roman artefacts, but that was his last sea dive, on advice from his doctor.

Cheers Ron

[simonf]

Bends that I have witnessed were:

1. Type 1 - normal dive profile with extra stops - put down to dehydration treated succesfully with one ride in the chamber
2. Type 2 (mine) - normal dive with extra stops (nitrox) - dehydration (hot day sat on the boat), treated successfully with one ride in the chamber and good fry up next morning
3. Vestibular (does this count as type 2???) - 15m dive on a cold day, don't know cause, but single treatment.
4. Type 2 - deepish dive (for person involved) in poorly fitting semi dry so came out very cold (then had to sit on another boat whilst fast ascent being dealt with - see 5 below), treated with one trip to the pot.
5. No symptoms but missed about 7 mins (I think) so recompressed as precaution. Possibly a smidge too light on the 6m stop.

So, the connection from my standpoint is hydration (or lack of it) and keeping warm. Strangely, only 1 and 5 above resulted in trips in a whirly bird, the others all kicked in sometime the following day.

On the subject of inevitable etc, I don't think we teach it to be inevitable but we do try and emphasis that it isn't anything to be embarrased about and that when in doubt scuking on O2 is preferable to sucking on a popcicle!

Simon

[John Touhig]

Originally Posted by wreckweasel

Something to be ashamed of, No.

easier said then done, when I got hit I was on a boat with some of the more experienced technical divers found on these 'ere boards and my tech instructor... don't get me wrong not one of them critisised me in any way.. but that didn't stop me from feeling like a total pratt for getting bent.