About bloody time.

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

Who are you refering to? Cos if its us get your facts straight, i have deleted my first responce.

We are not coded and do not have space for all the kit. Simple really.

Originally Posted by Andy the Commie

But when a club RhIB is doing the same dive as me , charging the same prices as me , and the boat is not kitted out with safety equipment and the boat handler can just drive the boat with no tickets and has to look after 6 - 8 divers....... and for arguements sake, gets water in his fuel & gets towed back........... AND not even a slap on his hand ,,,,,,,,,

Paul,

As i just said to you on AOL ,,,,

The RiB was trying to do the same dive as me, as he saw me and the Dive Star on the Loanda.
Water in the fuel was just that, NO CAP on the petrol tank, and after a few waves over him , 2 of my divers complained about having petrol / oil on their kit ( Dive star and myself are diesel's ). Although thier outboard stayed running on high revs , it followed Dive star back into Dover.

Waves in the boat, soak thier battery, which is why they tried to dive with us as thier VHF,GPS and sounder went down.

And the divers didn't get a dive, but still had to cough up, and £ 15 was the charge , how do i know ?

Coz they swapped some fivers with me for £ 10's ...

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Keith L

The PBA has a long history of looking after its members interests, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that, that it what it is supposed to do! But all that I am seeing is a professional skipper, who never tires of making that point, using the RNLI/Coastguard statement to have yet another go at those horrible, nasty club RIBs who cannot possibly have any clue whatsoever as they are not "professional" skippers!

To which i'm NOT a member of, and never will be, my idea of a PROFESSIONAL skipper is one that makes a living from his boat, getting paid , Professional in your eyes seems to Mr Perfect , to which i am not. There are some good dive boat handlers out there who have just the basic RYA Day Skippers ticket, then there are yachtmasters who don't give a flying fcuk, as long as they cover thier expenses......

NOW, You know that after one of my customers was hit by a TUG,I PM'ed you about advice on a BSAC incident form , and I hope you got my PM back after i sent it to Mr Cummin.

Thats my idea of being a professional, I was stuck and asked for advice.


No Andy, I cannot support your call for "more legislation" and "something must be done". Therein lies a can of worms that you do not want to even consider opening. Get off your high horse about these non-professional skippers you keep whinging on about, they are not the problem and legislation will solve NOTHING.

Ok, lets see if i can make sense again .......

Your wife is picking up your kids from school, and driving her nice shiney new car is hit by another car, it kills the kids and your wife is left in a wheel chair for life.
The other driver walks free from the accident,but the law knab him for drink drinking , but is only just over the limit.
However the car he was driving, had 3 bald tyres no tax and no insurance.

See where i'm coming from ?





Yes, I have also been on professional boats in a very poor state of repair. Yes, I've also been on them when they have broken down. Accidents happen Andy, when there is a risk to life then that is not the time to be considering whether one can afford to summon assistance.

[b]Yes, i understand that what your saying ,,, BUT , why shouldn't some motor cruiser owner be stung for TOW job , when he didn't have to sense to carry the right amount of fuel for the passage ........

FFS, in the BSAC questions on dive planning it always says you need a 50 bar RESERVE........ In diving , use your reserve and the price can be DEATH. BIG PRICE TO PAY that is ....

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by Paul Oliver

Dover lifeboat is very happy to help boats with problems and have never to my knowledge mentioned fee's.

And i don't think they ever will, and AS i was there on the lifeboat after your club's tow in , i can put my hand on my heart and state that EVERY ONE OF YOUR DIVERS,PERSONALLY THANKED THE CREW,,,, thats all they like to hear........... some just walk away once the ropes are tied.

We have self help kit on the boat, but sometimes it needs more than we have. We do have several radio's, book out with the CG and if the GPS goes down can give good directions.

Paul,

You wasn't down there on Monday, but a MCA surveyor was and was looking at ALL the boats, You was diving over the weekend and it wasn't from club boat, but there was one that went out over loaded and he had 2 complaints from god knows who , about the concerns of a boat looking like it was to overloaded with divers and as the boat was still in the tidal , he was watching it .......

Now, to me , thats ME as a TAX PAYER watching a man doing his JOB properly. If he can give friendly advice all well and good.

And to be honest , it was more amusing him running to a coded boat that is brand new , when he saw that me and guiding light had load lines and the vessel concerned didn't ,,,, Laugh at him running , FFS, i nearly brought the beers .


And , i 'll post in public,,,, I dn't give a damm , what clubs charge for thier divers ..... as i have told you before ...

I think CLUB BOATS, belonging to a BRANCH, should rightly so, charge thier divers , as boats are one big ' throw ya money down the drain ' pleasures, however , where the system is wrong , is by not having divers pay all the expenses and not just the daily running costs.....
I do feel that drivers should be RYA trained to at last DAY SKIPPER / POWER BOAT Advanced and be insured,


Andy

[ray]

Originally Posted by Keith L

I could not disagree more! Jobsworths, busybodies and government regulation solve NOTHING, they never have and they never will. I spy the hand of the RYA in all of this, oh how they would love to flog their courses and issue worthless bits of paper under government license.

Keith L

TutTut!.
Afraid to learn proper sea manship, and safety techniques, are you sure you can get yourself home in the fog without GPS.

Do not be afraid of knowledge, only stupidity.

( RYA Yacht master Ocean & navigation instructor)

[ray]

Originally Posted by Keith L

...and who is going to sit as judge and jury to decide whether a callout is worth while or not? Why - the professional skippers of course! Should they get water in their fuel due to a leaking filler cap then that's just "one of those things", it's only gross incompetance when is happens to lesser beings.

I am not arguing that many callout could be avoided, but the answer is NOT yet more bloody legislation and a whole army of do-gooders with badges a clipboards telling people what's good for them. If the RNLI want payment for their fuel then chase it through the civil courts.

What you are suggesting is a very, very, VERY slipperly slope. We are already over governed, over regulated and over taxed as it is without the vested interests of the PBA etc. trying once again to put a stop to the whole concept of club dive boats.

Keith L

Tut Tut.

You can sit out at sea for a long time when you run out of fuel, break down,
or have an incident. Maybe you would change your mind while sitting out on the oggin waiting for some one to come, perhaps your wallet might open then!.

There is always Lloyd's Open Register, here you can take my rope, (rubs hands together)

[Angleseyskipper]

Originally Posted by ray

TutTut!.
Afraid to learn proper sea manship, and safety techniques, are you sure you can get yourself home in the fog without GPS.

Do not be afraid of knowledge, only stupidity.

( RYA Yacht master Ocean & navigation instructor)

more afraid of having to part with cash to go diving!

[John N]

Originally Posted by Keith L

I could not disagree more! Jobsworths, busybodies and government regulation solve NOTHING, they never have and they never will. I spy the hand of the RYA in all of this, oh how they would love to flog their courses and issue worthless bits of paper under government license.

Keith L

This all seems to be getting a bit heated, but it's obvious from recent incidents that something needs to be done to address issues around seamanship.

Why should divers have to suffer being hit by boats and jetskis because their users don't understand the safety conventions?

If legislation is not the answer, then how would you suggest we address this very real problem?

Rather than naysaying, offer some realistic suggestions that might fix the problem that obviously exists at the moment.

[Andy the Coastie]

Originally Posted by John N

This all seems to be getting a bit heated, but it's obvious from recent incidents that something needs to be done to address issues around seamanship.

Why should divers have to suffer being hit by boats and jetskis because their users don't understand the safety conventions?

This will decrease slightly, as NOW you can't buy a brand new jet ski from a dealer unless, you have do a 2 day PWC Course

[resting rifleman]

you can of course buy any amount on e-bay, or from the local freeadds! or the scally around the corner too.
they've started roaming in packs down this way. KAMIKAZE KIDS!
(worse than that 'kin frog) just where do you put the boat to guard divers in the water when there's 15 or 20 of em all over the orchard?

[jph6969]

Originally Posted by John N

Rather than naysaying, offer some realistic suggestions that might fix the problem that obviously exists at the moment.

How about the RAC of the SEA, it must be out there, the 'oh sh1it I've run out of fuel' crowd could call (or radio) a 24hrs service dedicated to helping them leaving the real emergencies to the rescue bodies that do such a great job.

now I have the plan just need the backing, any takers ..........