An end to the IRA?

[Mr T.]

Speaking as an 'Irish Catholic' (albeit an à la carte one) - this move, if indeed it is to come, can't some soon enough. But always remember the 'Irish Conundrum': "If you think you've got the answer to the 'Irish Question', they'll go and change the question..."

That, and the fact that Adams, McGuinness & Co. now find that they have no friends in the Whitehouse (so no shock they want to talk), where once Clinton allowed them free reign and the sponsorship of the bloody Kennedys and the US Oirish vote. Course, all we need now is that demagogue of intransigence, Paisley, to get his shit together and come to the table - 'talks' are predicated on the fact that there are two parties at the table...



Offer could end IRA

As part of a deal to restore devolution in Northern Ireland, republicans have made an offer that could lead to the demise of the IRA.


End of the IRA offered to Unionists in peace deal
By Thomas Harding, Ireland Correspondent
(Filed: 18/09/2004)

An offer that could lead to the IRA's demise was made by republicans as part of a deal to restore devolution in Northern Ireland, political sources said yesterday.

Talks to find a solution to the province's two-year political impasse continued last night.

Gerry Adams, the Sinn Fein leader, offered to decommission most of the IRA's arsenal and a form of guarantee to end all paramilitary activity was put on the table.

Before the summit at Leeds Castle in Kent started Mr Adams prepared republicans for an end to the IRA by saying that the terrorist group had to be removed as an "excuse" for Unionists refusing to share power with Sinn Fein.

More pressure was put on republicans yesterday after Albert Reynolds, the former Irish premier, told a conference in Belfast that the IRA, which was responsible for more than half of the 3,600 deaths in the Troubles, should become "a commemorative organisation".

Tony Blair tried to put pressure on Ian Paisley's Democratic Unionist Party to accept Sinn Fein's offer and agree to go into power sharing with Mr Adams.

If he succeeds, Mr Blair would have achieved something unthinkable a few months ago because the DUP refused to share government with a party tied to terrorists.

But the DUP might agree to a series of steps towards restoring devolution, which collapsed amid allegations of IRA spying two years ago, at some point next year, possibly after the next general election.

The hardline Unionists are thought to want to wait until the Independent Monitoring Commission, a watchdog of paramilitaries, provides at least two reports, scheduled for next month and in March. If the commission gives the IRA a clean bill of health, the DUP might agree to power sharing.

But Sinn Fein has refused to be "sanctioned" by the commission believing that any minor transgression by elements within the IRA could lead to the party being thrown out of Stormont.

Negotiations continued at a "slow" pace yesterday with offers being made verbally and nothing as yet committed to paper.

Mitchell Reiss, President George W Bush's envoy to Northern Ireland, has also put pressure on both parties to do a deal. DUP politicians hinted that some progress had been made but there were still "significant stone boulders in the way".

Ian Paisley junior said: "It took three years to get something to work that collapsed [the Good Friday Agreement]. So it's going to take more than three days for another deal that will last."

If no deal is struck between the DUP and Sinn Fein it is possible that Mr Blair might still make an announcement on substantial troop reductions in return for an IRA announcement on its future.

[Mick F]

As much as I hope and pray for an end to the provos and their ilk, I'll believe it when I see it.

They, along with many of the other "paramilitary" groups have simply changed focus onto more mainstream criminal activities such as drug trafficing, prostitution, and protection rackets (as opposed to their previously specialist type of criminality such as blowing the shit out of innocents across Ireland, the UK, and Europe, random murder of adults and children alike, suicide bombers by proxy, etc)

There are now millions made weekly as a result of these activities, and nobody is willing to drop that kind of money overnight.

While I can understand the reasons for the birth of the Provos, their actions over the years can have no other effect but to sicken and disgust.

While Beslan has moved us all to tears, let's not forget Warrington, Brighton, Deal, Kent, Enniskillen, Canary Wharf, Manchester, Birmingham, Guildford, and all the other atrocities (such an inadequate word) that the Provos were responsible for, along with the likes of Dublin, Monaghan and others carried out by their loyalist counterparts.

I apologise if the strength of feeling here upsets, but I have a deep personal interest in the demise of these scum. It also abhors me that actions such as these have been carried out in the name of the Irish nation. Nothing could be further from the truth.

It also does not encourage hopes of a peaceful accord when only last week Paisley was bellowing at "Romanist" journalists. Can the man still not see past the religous bigotry that has made up the vast majority of his life. Will his legacy be one of vision and detente; I think not.

Will Adams & Co., be seen as peacemakers? Christ only knows. The provos developed a seventeen point plan for success during the late '70s. It may interest you to learn that they have achieved 15 of those objectives. These include infiltration of the education system, provision of specialist lawyers etc. The only two not achieved thus far are a 32 county Irish Republic, with a Sinn Fein government. a frightening thought for many of us here.

I will leave you with a comment allegedly made by our outgoing Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy. His governing party Fianna Fail were decimated in the recent local elections here. Much gain was made by Sinn Fein. McCreevy was supposed to have claimed privately that "Fianna Fail were badly hurt by the poor turnout. All the shaggin poor turned out and voted for the Shinners"

Best,

Mick

[Driftwood]

The pessimist in me thinks they will just be another TLA.

[Brass Monkey]

Originally Posted by Bren Tierney

Speaking as an 'Irish Catholic' (albeit an à la carte one) - this move, if indeed it is to come, can't some soon enough. But always remember the 'Irish Conundrum': "If you think you've got the answer to the 'Irish Question', they'll go and change the question..."

Well said Bren. I have to agree with Mick (drman) as well; they will never go away they will just change form. Meanwhile Adams will get his Noble peace prize.
Yes I believe he could, it won’t be the first time that a terrorist has became a world wide champion of peace. I will not mention the other person I'm thinking about, the flames would never end such is his world popularity amongst those that Know and care nothing of his past. So it could be with Adams, anyone think that the yanks would not like to take full credit for being seen to end a problem that is unsolvable. They tried before but the timing wasn't right now things have changed.


Dave.

[Andrew H]

When I visited the UK in the eighties it was illeagal to show Gerry Adams or broadcast his words. Now he has an office in parliament! Although I appreciate that Ireland has some significant problems, the terror threat from them seems to have largely passed. All but the very thickest must see that the progress since has been far in excess of anything acheived by the troubles, though it could be argued that they forced the issue. If you look at the current situation in Palestine, it seems clear that the British handling of Northern Ireland could have been far worse. With the Isrealis taking part in tit for tat killings, there will be no end to the bloodshed there. Sadly Northern Ireland now has a whole generation of people with a tribal, violent view of life, and we can only hope that the next generation will bring real peace.

The American support for the IRA over the years shows how poorly they understand the world. While they believe that the Irish fight for independance from Britain as they once did, they forget the opression of terror which Britain lived under through the eighties, with the IRA and PLO amongst others running wild. Strange that one incident on US soil brought it home to them.

When will people realise that it doesn't matter who rules the country, they're all crap. We voted Tony in and he's crap. The Americans voted W in (sort of) and he's crap. And then there's Europe...

Andrew

[chrisch]

Originally Posted by drman

.......They, along with many of the other "paramilitary" groups have simply changed focus onto more mainstream criminal activities such as drug trafficing, prostitution, and protection rackets ...........

Nail - hammer - head.

The other 99.95% are fed up with it.

Chris

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Brass Monkey

Well said Bren. I have to agree with Mick (drman) as well; they will never go away they will just change form. Meanwhile Adams will get his Noble peace prize.
Yes I believe he could, it won’t be the first time that a terrorist has became a world wide champion of peace. I will not mention the other person I'm thinking about, the flames would never end such is his world popularity amongst those that Know and care nothing of his past. So it could be with Adams, anyone think that the yanks would not like to take full credit for being seen to end a problem that is unsolvable. They tried before but the timing wasn't right now things have changed.


Dave.

Surely you couldn't be talking about a Mr M?

[Dinger]

Must admit the American Irish thing used to have me gritting my teeth on many an occasion including one where i saw some twat in an IRA - UNDEFEATED ARMY t shirt collecting in an 'Irish' bar for NORAID - he got some surprise when i looked him in the eye and told him to 'fuck off' in my harsh Belfast accent! They dont seem to translate the whole 'terrosrist' thing well or something, we all know the money went to buy bullets and SAM's and all sorts and helped bloody no-one at all but try to get some of the yanks to see that and you'd have a hard time.

Regarding the meeting with Bertie and Tony et al I was however pleased to see that Ian Paisley is looking very old and infirm these days so hopefully he will retire or die or something soon. All we need is something akin to bubonic plague to set in into certain offices in Stormount and NI would be alot better.

A simple story that sums the whole thing up recently is the young Belfast artist who for his final piece for his degree painted a picture of all of the MLA's for NI to be hung in the great hall in stormount. He put the MLA's from the SDLP (the great John Hume's old gang) in the front of the picture and when asked by the tv reporters why he choose to put them at the front, was he a supporter etc he said "because they were the only party who didn't call me and ask to be placed at the front!!!"

Bunch of tits really
Dinger

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by Dinger

Regarding the meeting with Bertie and Tony et al I was however pleased to see that Ian Paisley is looking very old and infirm these days so hopefully he will retire or die or something soon.

Aye Dinger, his retirement or dying I can cope with (Amen to both!) - it's the 'something' which gives me pause for thought!

The IRA will claim (and invariably do) that it was them who brought about 'peace in the NI' - whilst also claiming that they were/are the innocent party in all that came to be known - all too euphemistically - as The Troubles. Strange that they missed the overt logic that peace was never achieved by blowing people to bits.

A lot of what brought them to this juncture was the current world view that Terrorism is just plain unacceptable and, as P. J. O'Rourke has it "for losers..."

The arrest of four IRA-whallas (including Sinn Fein's, ahem, 'Ambassador' to Cuba - not a place known for its democratic credentials) who were instructing the FARC terrorists to build bombs and cause general mayhem, did not go down at all well with the Bush administration - the beginning of the freezing of relationships between Irish Nationalists and the 'Oirish' vote in the US.

In the Oval Office, Irish terrorists, teaching FARC how to blow up Irish-American troops in Colombia, went down like a whiskey-swilling female riding a pig, naked, through a Mosque. The FBI then went into bat and began 'finding' (as opposed to ignoring) weapons' shipments from the US (the Florida incident) and largely closed down the NORAID funding; which they then coupled with US entry visas to 'certain Irish' citizens becoming as rare as Chinese cooks with naturually ginger Afros.

Even the entrenched fuckwittage of Adams & Co. were able to read the way the wind was blowing and, without friends in the Whitehouse, and the world opinion that bombs and bullets (where 'normal and civilised' people sit down and talk about their problems) gets you nowhere, has hopefully resulted in the PIRA/Sinn Fein realising that 'their way' is, and always has been, unacceptable.

As Herodotus said: "We have to hope that there is hope..."

[Dinger]

Originally Posted by Bren Tierney

his retirement or dying I can cope with (Amen to both!) - it's the 'something' which gives me pause for thought!

Actually Bren your right it does sound bad certainly didnt mean it like that at all, wouldnt wish that on anyone even him - just my poor grasp of writing got me twisted there.

Dinger
PS Bren those men in Columbia were innocent they did nothing wrong. Fake passports, in the company of suspected guerillas and prior history with terrorism at home in Ireland - All just coincidence that was - they were there to study peace. Surely that was obvious