Apartheid by another name?

[Mr T.]

I understand perfectly why Trevor suggested this, he's a history of radical suggestions in his role - just ironic that he runs the risk of playing into the hands of his Bête Noire, the BNP en route.


Call for separate classes for black boys

Press Association
Monday March 7, 2005

Black boys may have to be taught in separate classes from their white peers to help them do better at school, according to the race relations watchdog.

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was necessary to prepare for such an option because so many black boys are failing to get good GCSEs.

He also called for tougher action against black fathers, questioning whether they should be denied access to their sons if they refuse to attend school parents' evenings.

Figures published last month showed black teenagers continued to lag behind their white classmates at GCSE, although there were signs the gap was narrowing.

Last year, just 35.7% of black Caribbean pupils in England scored at least five C-grades at GCSE, compared with a national average of 51.9%.

A spokesman for the Department for Education and Skills said progress was being made, with ethnic minorities "closing the gap", but there was "no room for complacency".

Mr Phillips told BBC1's Inside Out programme that many black boys were suffering from a culture where it was not cool to be clever, and they lacked self-esteem and good role models.

"If the only way to break through the wall of attitude that surrounds black boys is to teach them separately for some subjects, then we should be ready for that," he said. "A tough new strategy would compel black fathers to be responsible fathers.

"If they can't be bothered to turn up for parents' evening, should they expect automatic access to their sons?"

In filming for the programme, Mr Phillips returned to his old school, White Hart Lane in Wood Green, north London, to get a better understanding of the problem.

He went on: "We need more male black teachers, tempting them with extra cash if necessary.

"I was one of the few lucky ones who escaped the fate of most black men of my generation.

"We need to embrace some new, if unpalatable, ideas both at home and at school.

"None of us, least of all the next generation of black children, can afford a repeat of the last 40 years."

Speaking earlier today, Mr Phillips insisted the proposals did not break the law.

He said the government had succeeded in raising the performance of children as a whole at GCSE level. But black boys were not improving.

"It seems to me that we need to look for some new ideas because this is costing the whole community, not just the black community or the individuals, a great deal," he said.

"These boys are unemployable, they end up in a situation where, in a sense, they can't participate in society. So we wanted to look for some radical ideas."

Mr Phillips told the Today programme anything that worked was worth looking at.

"It may not be translatable, but it is at least worth considering," he said.

Mr Phillips insisted the scheme did not amount to segregation.

"The point is there is a group of boys who we know have a particular set of needs, partly because of their background, partly because of things that they bring into school... and we may need to have some specific tailor-made solutions for them which don't apply to other people.

"That might mean putting them in some classes together."

Mr Phillips's comments follow a recent row over religious "segregation" in schools provoked by the head of Ofsted, David Bell. Muslim groups reacted with anger two months ago when Mr Bell warned that the growth of Islamic faith schools posed a potential threat to the "coherence" of British society.

He said cultural diversity must not lead to "segregation".

A DfES spokesman said: "The proportion of black Caribbean, black African and other black pupils achieving five or more A-star to C grades at GCSE and equivalent in 2004 has improved by more than 2.5% against the average improvement of 1.2%.

"This shows that minority ethnic groups are making real progress and are closing the gap.

"Our strategies to tackle minority ethnic underachievement through Aiming High and Excellence in Cities are working.

"But there must be no room for complacency and we must maintain this upward trend, so that the gap is closed even further and that all pupils regardless of their ethnic or cultural background fulfil their potential."

Inside Out will be broadcast at 7.30pm tonight on BBC1 in the London area.

[NeilB]

So, if you are white and failing your GCSEs that's OK because statistically you don't matter?

If you want real racial equality then treat everyone the same. If you are failing your GCSEs then you are failing your GCSEs and need help...the colour of your skin or social background doesn't matter.
Perhaps the real problem is the lack of schools after successive govenrnments closed them down. Or the lack of good teachers because the pay is so much better for them abroad.

[Lynne]

Perhaps the real problem is the British sense that everyone should be able to be achieve the same things, when the reality is that some people are more academically inclined than others. Girls do better in some subjects than boys and vice versa - do we then segregate the sexes for those lessons? If someone suggested that white pupils be taught separately from black students, Trevor Phillips would be the first to shout racism. This is racism pure and simple. If there is a cultural attitude that being academically good isn't "cool", then this is a problem that can only be addressed by that culture.

I went to school, whilst taking my O-levels, with a lot of people who thought it wasn't cool to be good or try at school, all of them white, who used to think it fun to bully those who did put the effort in. This, you could say, is a cultural thing as it was the attitude of a large proportion of the "in bred" ex mining (no this isn't anti miners, it's simply a fact!) village where I was going to school - so whats the solution to this? I know, lets set up separate classes for the poor bullies, who make the life of pupils who do try a misery, because they can not be ars*d to work properly at school, and their parents find this a perfectly acceptable attitude. Sorry but life isn't like that - if you can't be bothered to make the effort, why should other people be expected to on your behalf? I can tell you one thing - when I went to army schools, we never had any problems with this because everyone tried their best and was pushed to their full ability - wahey I found the solution - send the lazy sods to Army schools!

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Lynne

Perhaps the real problem is the British sense that everyone should be able to be achieve the same things, when the reality is that some people are more academically inclined than others. Girls do better in some subjects than boys and vice versa - do we then segregate the sexes for those lessons? If someone suggested that white pupils be taight separately from black students, Trevor Phillips would be the first to shout racism. This is racism pure and simple. If there is a cultural attitude that being academically good isn't "cool", then this is a problem that can only be addressed by that culture.

I went to school, whilst taking my O-levels, with a lot of people who thought it wasn't cool to be good or try at school, all of them white, who used to think it fun to bully those who did put the effort in. This, you could say, is a cultural thing as it was the attitude of a large proportion of the "in bred" ex mining (no this isn't anti miners, it's simply a fact!) village where I was going to school - so whats the solution to this? I know, lets set up separate classes for the poor bullies, who make the life of pupils who do try a misery, because they can not be ars*d to work properly at school, and their parents find this a perfectly acceptable attitude. Sorry but life isn't like that - if you can't be bothered to make the effort, why should other people be expected to on your behalf? I can tell you one thing - when I went to army schools, we never had any problems with this because everyone tried their best and was pushed to their full ability - wahey I found the solution - send the lazy sods to Army schools!

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Lynne]

Originally Posted by dry suit diver

Couldn't have put it better myself.

OMG we agreed!

[chrisch]

Wow. What a worm can... There's so much here - institutional racism towards black kids, poor schools, Blair's failure on education 3X, less opportunities for black people in adult life....

Dammit I have to agree with Bren. Oh dear..

Neil sums it up:
Racial equality = treat everyone the same.

Shut up Trevor, you sound like Diane Abbot...

Chris

[NotDeadYet]

Wouldn't it be better having separate classes for those that are actually doing well, regardless of colour, rather than lumping them together with the, er, thickies. A couple of friends are teachers in inner city schools and they spend so much time on those with "learning disabilities" in their all inclusive (i.e. overcrowded because the schools are so badly undefunded) classes that the genuinely bright kids are falling behind.

[Fathoms Down]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

Wouldn't it be better having separate classes for those that are actually doing well, regardless of colour, rather than lumping them together with the, er, thickies.

No, thats "thickist"!

[abucksdiver]

<Rant>
This year, my daughters school have taught her that it is better to be disruptive in class, to not bother trying to be the best she can, and that bullying is OK.

How? Because of the schools PC policies.

If you are a disruptive influence within the class, you get rewarded for any non-disruptive actions you take (extra time in the ICT suite, get to use the interactive whiteboards etc.) If you behave all the time, you are not allowed to use these resources.

At her previous school, she aimed to get 10/10 for all her spellings/maths tests etc. Now, the teacher is perfectly happy for her to get 8/10, and 6 or 7 /10 is still "better than most of the class".

There is a class bully in her class. Whenever this bully picks on any of the girls (the bully is female...) it is the victims that get moved and isolated, not the bully... (Probably against the bullys' human rights to isolate them, or some other such cobblers!)

As Tony (almost) said... "soft on crime, tough on the victims of crime"....

</Rant>

Andrew

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by Mr T.

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was necessary to prepare for such an option because so many black boys are failing to get good GCSEs.

They are failing to be good whites?

He also called for tougher action against black fathers, questioning whether they should be denied access to their sons if they refuse to attend school parents' evenings.

There is an interesting assumption about black fathers there.

"A tough new strategy would compel black fathers to be responsible fathers."

Shey yo rules honky....

He went on: "We need more male black teachers, tempting them with extra cash if necessary.

More pay for blacks!

The thinking is wrong. We need new ideas not the same old lefty ideas. Is it only me that sees something wonderfully Thatherite about the "Big Issue"? Get the homeless off the streets by turning them into small businessmen?
Trying to make homework cool will never work. Ready made role models ditto. Why should a black teacher be a better teacher of blacks? If the kids were dumb enough not to see through games like this you couldn't educate them anyway.