Debunking the airplane toilet terror lab

[ahar]

A very interesting article from The Register on just how unfeasible a TATP bomb would be to put together on a plane


Mass murder in the skies: was the plot feasible? | The Register

[Conor]

interesting article, if alightly scientifically dubious


'First, you've got to get adequately concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This is hard to come by, so a large quantity of the three per cent solution sold in pharmacies might have to be concentrated by boiling off the water'

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by Conor

interesting article, if alightly scientifically dubious


'First, you've got to get adequately concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This is hard to come by, so a large quantity of the three per cent solution sold in pharmacies might have to be concentrated by boiling off the water'

I'm sure I'm being a dumbass, but.....

How else do you concentrate dilute Hydrogen Peroxide? Isn't it a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide in a water solvent?

H2O2's boiling point is 171 DegC vs H20 at 100 DegC so isn't that correct?

Or am I missing something here?

[DannyB]

Originally Posted by Bantam

I'm sure I'm being a dumbass, but.....

How else do you concentrate dilute Hydrogen Peroxide? Isn't it a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide in a water solvent?

H2O2's boiling point is 171 DegC vs H20 at 100 DegC so isn't that correct?

Or am I missing something here?

Not a chemist so just a guess....

under intense heating wouldnt 2H2O2 => 2H20 + O2 ?

Danny

Edit: According to This the peroxide vapours as it boils are explosive.

[Duncan Price]

Originally Posted by Conor

'First, you've got to get adequately concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This is hard to come by, so a large quantity of the three per cent solution sold in pharmacies might have to be concentrated by boiling off the water'

or buy a vacuum still from: Hydrogen Peroxide Distillation Machine of Tecnologia Aeroespacial Mexicana

There is a lot of literature on the manufacture of organic peroxides as explosives but as "The Register" article points out, synthesis of sufficient TATP in-flight is technically unfeasible, although the production of chemical agents is not difficult (or is simply setting light to some petrol in the aircraft cabin).

[Conor]

Production of 02 would decrease the yield and increase the likelihood of explosion.. wouldn't really want to do it.

Also there are much easier (and safer) ways to get conc H202 for the dedicated chemist.

At the end of the day the press speculate on the explosive and the internet speculates on the accuracy of the specualtion. The simple question should be are there liquids that if you got them on a plane could be used to bring it down? .......yes. any speculation beyond that is academic...interesting and academic.

[Luddite]

What I remember from my chemistry is the H2O2 is unstable and would break down into H2O and 02 on heating. In fact the lab I have worked in alway store the concentrated peroxide in a fridge to stop this. Any solutions made up are just about useless after a week at room temperature.

[yellowduke]

To be honest I don't give the liquid bomb mixed in the loo much credence. I think smuggling the components on board to make a simple device using commercial explosives would be easier. Coordinating the bowel movements for retrieval of the components might take more doing though!

Jim

[Duncan Price]

Originally Posted by yellowduke

To be honest I don't give the liquid bomb mixed in the loo much credence. I think smuggling the components on board to make a simple device using commercial explosives would be easier. Coordinating the bowel movements for retrieval of the components might take more doing though!

Persumably laxatives would be banned from any medicines which might be legitimately carried onboard....

Oh - as well as nitroglycerine containing tablets for angina and (you learn something new everyday) condoms containing nitroglycerine for its vasodilatory effects (brings a new meaning to the colloquial "bang").

[yellowduke]

Originally Posted by Duncan Price

Persumably laxatives would be banned from any medicines which might be legitimately carried onboard....

Oh - as well as nitroglycerine containing tablets for angina and (you learn something new everyday) condoms containing nitroglycerine for its vasodilatory effects (brings a new meaning to the colloquial "bang").

Better check my wallet next time I fly then just in case the emergency rubber is still in there!