Job vacancy- engineering turning/boring

[Sparky750]

Originally Posted by Wide eyed diver

The problem then is that all youngsters get treated the same - there are kids out there who really want to work and just be given a chance to show what they're worth. My son would dearly love an apprenticeship in an engineering trade (he's particularly interested in anything to do with boats), but has found the 2 "apprenticeships" he has so far tried out resulted in him working his butt off, being told he needed to be self employed paying his own stamp and responsible for sorting out all his own tax, NI etc then not even paying him anyway so it's no wonder he only lasted around 6 weeks - would you continue to work for someone who tells you that they will train you, give you an apprenticeship etc then mess you about, get you running around and doing all the work, then not paying and not giving any training etc either? He has applied for any number of jobs/apprenticeships - most don't even bother to acknowledge. So, come on - it's not all one sided, us oldies have to take some responsibility as well and give some of the youngsters a chance.

BTW if we were in your area he would definitely be approaching you and he would put in a good days work, be willing to learn, listen to what he's told and show initiative. He volunteered and works as lifeboat crew - he's going for his week's training at Poole next week and is only 18 (started with the lifeboats as soon as he turned 17) - so they're not all slackers hanging around on street corners.

Kay

Well i'm sorry he's been treated that way it's not the way i've treated any of the lads who've worked for me i'm quite a generous guy when it comes to paying people but due to the experiences i've had with younger apprentices i won't be taking the gamble again i think 5 times is bitten once too often i even had one lad ask for a pay rise after 2 weeks bear in mind he was taking home £180 a week and he knew nothing, i'd agreed when he started he'd get a pay rise in a years time or if i thought he deserved it before then. In those 2 weeks he'd been late 3 times because he'd overslept FFS So while i'm sure there are some good lads out there sadly with my company anyway a few have ruined it for others. I get asked at least twice a week to give such a bodies lad a go because they're "a really good lad" in the instances i've tried i've learnt they're a lazy good for nothing and in one case thieving scrote so now i don't try. I was even begged to give a girl a go i have no problem with women doing my job as long they can do it but this girl just wanted to push her tits in my face and wouldn't use tools in case she broke her nails Speaking to friends in a similar position to me they have had exactly the same problems i do feel sorry for the genuine few who actually want to do it but finding one is like finding rocking horse shit at the moment in my experience.

[DannyB]

Originally Posted by Sparky750

I was even begged to give a girl a go i have no problem with women doing my job as long they can do it but this girl just wanted to push her tits in my face and wouldn't use tools in case she broke her nails

And you have a problem with this?

Danny

[PeeBee]

Of course if Woz sold the job better Job vacancy- engineering turning/boring - he might get more results, doesn't sound very exciting

[copperband]

Originally Posted by nigelH

We don't seem to be helping Woz find a machinist but I'm surprised to see how many people in the business we have.

Just started assisting in proveout on an HG800. Terrible memory capacity though, something like 800 metres IIRC (about 260kb in new money), I had to split the program into 6 parts the other day so we could start manufacture before BAe came to see it cutting. I can't talk about the component vitals much but its a 350kg Titanium forging. Very sturdy and reliable m/c's (this one did 7 years of lights out 24/7 machining) and still accurate. Last place I was at they had a VK55 which they daren't move incase it wouldn't fire up again, but again, reliable and accurate.
Is there a parameter in the HG800 to up the memory?

Things you can talk about on YD, never ceases to amaze.

As for you problem Woz, sorry, cannae help Although I did work on a Geneve Swiss Jig borer for a few years a while a ago, I never did find that putting on tool.

[jamesp]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I feel you pain but your typical UK management living in the past. You cant expect laborious to live in cardboard boxes and skilled men to live in tower blocks so the bosses can get rich. The Victorian era is over. Same problem in Japan now cost of living has caught up with even the lowest paid.

In China the cost of living is incredible. You can do a weeks shopping for £5, tax is virtually non existent for the work force and quality of life expectations are very low. Working conditions are shocking, health and safety is non existent and discipline is high as no one can afford to loose their job in a country with zero social services.

A typical three bedroom apartment (they don't like houses) can be purchased for £5,000. A luxury 4 bed apartment on the beech with roof top gardens and a pond (like my sister in law just purchased) is £20,000. £500 a month is a good income. On a par with £2500 a month take home in the UK. My sister in law sells cosmetics internationally and makes about £800 a month. Shes comparatively upper middle class in terms of income.

Hardly any one takes out a mortgage, families club together to lend money. They hardly ever go on holiday and they work like dogs.

The UK manufacturing industry cant compete with it, and China is up and coming so you wait to see what happens when Vietnam kicks in and undercuts China. Move your business to Hungry its a global economy now stop thinking we can go back to the bad old days. We skilled engenears have mooved on and so should the management.

The only money in engineering now is hyper specialist and development work and repairs. If you want to make good money in new tooling and components, moove aborad.

Don't comment on how good or bad you think we were. I worked for Phillips Toolroom on the Imperial Way Croydon and was time served at Mullards in Mitcham (part of the Phillips group). Widely regarded as the best tool room in the UK. I can assure you Paul Silman was a veritable artist with metal. I only did ten years at it so I never got close to being as good as him but i wasn't bad.

The trouble with highly skilled men is they tend to be fairly intelligent. Why would an intelligent person turn down 50K a year as a plumber or an electrician to be a toolmaker for 25K a year?

Any one who thinks construction/plumbing/electrical work is a rip off can just pop down to B&Q's and do it them selves.

I run a timber and damp company so we fall into the band of rip off builders and for your information our on target profit is 15% for job costing is and we generally hit around 12%.

My 2006 accounts are on line if you wish to confirm this

In order to do this our men are charged at £250 a day per man + materials parking and logistics costs. which I am often told is a diabolical rip off. However our profit is avg £30 a day per man. So you tell me if we are ripping people off?

By comparison my local Mazda garage charges £85 an hour to service my car so £680 a day labor.

ATB

Mark

Bolloks.

You were in the game for ten years, including your apprenticeship, best part of thirty years ago.

You would not even recognise a modern machine shop.
Welcome to the twenty first century, work harder earn less.

Hardly living in the past, I pay myself exactly the same rate.
The market will only stand so much, I have sodding buyers to contend with. They get paid by how far they can drive prices down.
I dont want toolmakers, they want all day to look at the job, I want effective skilled machinists like Woz does.

From your quoted figures, you are costing at over £31 per hour, to work on site!!!! and only making £30 a day?? Amateur comes to mind.
I am running 6000 square feet of factory, best part of £250,000 of gear and still cost out at(way) less than that! My overheads are astronomical!

It sounds like the outdated management practices are a little closer to home Mark. Your `Management` overheads must be enormous, or is it just a case of sit on arse while the workers bring the dosh in?

Making money in engineering these days is about working smarter, not harder. There is no option of just charging the customer more.

I remember the early to mid eighties, the money was obscene, you could charge damn near anything and get it. The money was rolling in. Then things changed, nobody was giving it away anymore and all the tossers got thinned out, the clued up guys adapted, invested, specialised and moved on.

I am still around.

It sounds like you are operating in an early eighties business model mark. Enjoy it while it lasts.

PS My client list covers the UK, Europe and beyond.
I have had work of mine go to China this year!
Several of the companies are`blue chip`and I even do work for the Philips(medical) group!
I increased my turnover by a third last year, I am up on that again so far this year.
The first cnc wire eroder I had any dealings with was at a firm owned by a friend of my father. Cant remember if it was an Agie or a Charmiles, we went to see it one evening as the `new toy`, It was about `82. I was offered a job on it then.
I was 13, I`was earning my pocket money setting and running a capstan when i was ten.

So realistically,I`ve been in this game for nearly as long as you have been out of it and about three times longer than you were in it.
So with the greatest of respect Mark, you really are talking bolloks.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

The trouble with highly skilled men is they tend to be fairly intelligent. Why would an intelligent person turn down 50K a year as a plumber or an electrician to be a toolmaker for 25K a year?
Mark

Could do with a slice of that...
Goto agree with Mark th'o manufacturing is screwed,,been a trician for 30 years now ,mainly in manufacturing and automation and not many positions pay more than 20k a year unless your doing daft shifts, which they all seem to want now 24/7 etc.
Quality of life is poor for many skilled workers in the uk
Had a spell redundant last year,(MFI shut the Hygena plant and imported components) and when presenting myself at the local job centre ( a real experience itself) they tried railroading me into jobs paying a quid above minimum wage !!
these were for multiskilled ,brush up the ass ,time served tradesmen !!!

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by jamesp

Bolloks.

You were in the game for ten years, including your apprenticeship, best part of thirty years ago.

You would not even recognise a modern machine shop.
Welcome to the twenty first century, work harder earn less.

Hardly living in the past, I pay myself exactly the same rate.
The market will only stand so much, I have sodding buyers to contend with. They get paid by how far they can drive prices down.
I dont want toolmakers, they want all day to look at the job, I want effective skilled machinists like Woz does.

From your quoted figures, you are costing at over £31 per hour, to work on site!!!! and only making £30 a day?? Amateur comes to mind.
I am running 6000 square feet of factory, best part of £250,000 of gear and still cost out at(way) less than that! My overheads are astronomical!

It sounds like the outdated management practices are a little closer to home Mark. Your `Management` overheads must be enormous, or is it just a case of sit on arse while the workers bring the dosh in?

Making money in engineering these days is about working smarter, not harder. There is no option of just charging the customer more.

I remember the early to mid eighties, the money was obscene, you could charge damn near anything and get it. The money was rolling in. Then things changed, nobody was giving it away anymore and all the tossers got thinned out, the clued up guys adapted, invested, specialised and moved on.

I am still around.

It sounds like you are operating in an early eighties business model mark. Enjoy it while it lasts.

PS My client list covers the UK, Europe and beyond.
I have had work of mine go to China this year!
Several of the companies are`blue chip`and I even do work for the Philips(medical) group!
I increased my turnover by a third last year, I am up on that again so far this year.
The first cnc wire eroder I had any dealings with was at a firm owned by a friend of my father. Cant remember if it was an Agie or a Charmiles, we went to see it one evening as the `new toy`, It was about `82. I was offered a job on it then.
I was 13, I`was earning my pocket money setting and running a capstan when i was ten.

So realistically,I`ve been in this game for nearly as long as you have been out of it and about three times longer than you were in it.
So with the greatest of respect Mark, you really are talking bolloks.

Your maths isnt very good is it. I quit aged 27 which is 16 years ago not 30. 30 years ago I was in school.

The rest is about as acurate as well. Last time I poped into a macheen shop was a couple of years ago (Premet Park wood) and it hadent changed a bit

Phillips put their CNC wire eroder in, in 1981 I had just joined aged 17 and they had to take the roof off the building to get it in so I remember it very clearley.

ATB

Mark

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by copperband

something like 800 metres IIRC (about 260kb in new money)

315Kb

I had to split the program into 6 parts the other day so we could start manufacture before BAe came to see it cutting.

Drip feed it?
That's what BAe do.

Is there a parameter in the HG800 to up the memory?

Yes but I don't know things like that sadly.
I'm sure as can be there's a lot in the late HGs and it's a switch they set when they cut the invoice.

Things you can talk about on YD, never ceases to amaze.

Scary. I come on YD to cool my brain down between doses of rebuilding s/w. I currently live in the world of monitoring, logging and that meaningless fiction called OEE.

eg: My first CNC program editor did 30Kbyte programs. Well that was the one I took over.
Then they wanted 150Kb so I changed it.
Then 500Kb, then 2Mb etc.
Every time the methodology has to change subtly or it's slower than a very slow thing.
It now does 4Gb and next time they ask for an increase I want to see the drawing.
I give it two more years and it will be 10Gb. "Change all the T009s to T035 because the tool mappers broken"
<sigh>