TV Licencing. Any armchair lawyers out there?

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by ianfirmin

I wonder, has there been a test case?

I think if there had, there words would be on the TV Licencing FAQ page.

I think the issue is based around the ability to receive 'live' broadcast transmissions. So if you were to watch a prog live, you need a licence. Download later, after live transmission, now that is where it might fall apart. No essential difference to buying (apart from the financial aspect) a DVD and watching that. Until they decide what the law covers. I think it is a fair bet that will only go one way.

Adrian

[MAKING BUBBLES]

Originally Posted by ianfirmin

I wonder, has there been a test case?

Originally Posted by ianfirmin

Quote from above
"In the UK, all people who own a television, or watch Internet broadcasts of television shows are required to purchase an annual license, which is used to fund the state broadcaster, the BBC.

no need to test case it....it says above licence funding goes to the bbc and bbc run the website...dont they?

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by dry suit diver

if they wanted to prove in a court of law your ISP could be asked to confirm the IP address of sites visited, any that provide live TV would shopw up and then your pretty much nailed. I think.

Most ISP's cycle their IP addresses - typically every 30 days - the reason why most people are forced to have dynamic IP addresses (to stop people running their own websites from home on 'home user broadband packages'). I guess they could tie up on of their IP addresses to the logs on any TV sites and then tie the same IP address back to your MAC address if they capture it. Then they'd have you..

Originally Posted by ianfirmin

I wonder, has there been a test case?

There has been a (test) case where a a guy had everything BBC disabled in his house - i.e. he was able to prove that the devices he owned where unable to see the frequencies that the beeb broadcast on. He still got done IIRC..

I'll see if I can find it later..

[wilbo]

.. Dealing with TV Licensing - the TV licence "police"

[Ding Dang Doo]

Originally Posted by wilbo

Most ISP's cycle their IP addresses - typically every 30 days - the reason why most people are forced to have dynamic IP addresses (to stop people running their own websites from home on 'home user broadband packages'). I guess they could tie up on of their IP addresses to the logs on any TV sites and then tie the same IP address back to your MAC address if they capture it. Then they'd have you..

Shouldn't this be on the World of Warcraft thread??

Pete

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by Ding Dang Doo

Shouldn't this be on the World of Warcraft thread??

Pete

[Hellenic Diver]

i dont see how the likes of bbci can be classed as boradcasting - you are downloading - it is not streamed content.

a pc without a tv card is not capable of receiving broadcast signals - the nearest would be streamed media - which is not television

the website is exactly that - a website

[uwila]

I'm not a lawyer, but I can state exactly what the position is.

A TV license is required if you receive broadcast television to watch or record in any form (TV set, PC card, video or DVD recorder). Nothing is needed for receiving radio - that went out years ago.

You do not need a license if you own a television, but only use it for DVDs/videos or your own recordings. You cannot record programmes and watch them later without a license, but you can watch TV series on paid for DVDs/videos.

I own a wide screen tv and use it for watching DVDs, but do not have an aerial and never watch broadcast tv. I also received a series of letters from the privately run (gov't sold off the right to chase up offenders) company. At first I replied that I don't need a license as I don't watch television. Next they sent me a letter threatening prosecution and informed me that most people who claim not to need a license are lying. I got quite annoyed by their tone, but just binned the letters which came thick and fast.

Eventually we received a visit from an enforcer. Clearly he was paid minimum wage; his English language skills were minimal and he kept saying I would be fined £1000 and go to prison for 6 months. He demanded to be let in to check if I had a TV. When asked if he had the right to demand entry, he went away. A month later another enforcer appeared. This one was slightly more understandable and told me that their detector vans had received a signal from our house. Of course I know this to be a lie as I have never watched TV in our house - the set isn't set up to do it. When I asked the date, time and channel that they recorded, he couldn't answer (they do this if a real detector van visits). After I explained the impossibility of his claim, he suggested that maybe it was a reflected signal from a neighbour. He also demanded I buy a license and demanded entry so he could check my claim. When I refused, he threatened to come back with a policeman and a warrant. I said I looked forward to his return and would gladly welcome him into my home if he did so.

I wrote to them and explained how presumtious the enforcers were and how they lack knowledge of the law and their threatening demeanour. I never got an apology, but haven't heard from them since.

A freind of mine lives in darkest Norfolk and had the same experience, but over the telephone. When he asked which day/time/channel they had recorded him watching they backed down with the same 'reflected signal from your neighbour' excuse. Silence followed when he pointed out that his nearest neighbour is half a mile away. He also doesn't hear from them anymore.

Their policy is to threaten and intimidate based upon the assumption that everyone watches TV, but some people don't pay for the license.

The licensing web site

Do I need a licence?

You need a TV Licence to use any television receiving equipment such as a TV set, set-top boxes, video or DVD recorders, computers or mobile phones to watch or record TV programmes as they are being shown on TV.

This website is operated by the British Broadcasting Corporation in its capacity as the Licensing Authority and by its agents, trading as 'TV Licensing' of 100 Temple Street, Bristol, BS1 6AB. ('We').

Who they really are

Cheers, Chris

[wilbo]

Very interesting Chris.. thank you..

I wonder if the debt collection agency - as that basically is what they are - are paid on a licence by licence basis.. 'Sales targets' if you will..

[wilbo]

Originally Posted by Hellenic Diver

i dont see how the likes of bbci can be classed as boradcasting - you are downloading - it is not streamed content.

I watch streamed content from the BBC all the time.. The news is streamed, as are some sports events

Originally Posted by Hellenic Diver

a pc without a tv card is not capable of receiving broadcast signals - the nearest would be streamed media - which is not television

the website is exactly that - a website

what is a PC card nowadays.. I use a little USB Freeview thing that I bought for 40 quid - I get 80 channels on it.

As discussed earlier - Streamed media broadcasts from the BBC would be classed as receiving a TV broadcast..