Tibet

[Simon TW]

Done it and had the confirmation email.

[Ding Dang Doo]

Yep, I've done it.

Ever since I was a nipper and my dad gave me 'Seven Years in Tibet' to read, I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the county/people.

If you want to read a true story (not watch the Pitt film, which didn't do anything for me IMO),

have a look here

Amazon.co.uk: seven years in tibet

Hard back copy available for 75p plus P&P (looks just like the one I read.. err, 30 years ago!)

I have read the book several times since.

[Bardo]

Originally Posted by Howard Payne

The duplicity of western government's behaviour towards the human rights policies of other governments with whom we have a strategic or commericial interest is disgraceful.

Couldn't agree more, Howard. It's no wonder that large parts of the world would like to do nasty things to the people's of the west when our governments are so very selective about who they choose to 'help' (if you can call the indirect deaths of 80,000+ iraqi civilians 'help'). I suspect that if either Bali or Tibet contained large oil resources, our governments would be in there in no time at all - all in the name of 'protecting human rights'. Yeah, right...

Personally I'd like to see a few countries boycott the Beijing Olympics but - let's face it - that aint gonna happen 'cause we wouldn't want to annoy the chinese and jeopardise those lovely export contracts with have with them...

[divingdancer]

Signed it and passed info to all I know to encourage them to sign it too.

[Lazlo]

Originally Posted by Bardo

Personally I'd like to see a few countries boycott the Beijing Olympics but - let's face it - that aint gonna happen 'cause we wouldn't want to annoy the chinese and jeopardise those lovely export contracts with have with them...

At least that's a valid argument - not one I agree with but still a valid argument.

What I'd like to see is some personal bycotts by the athletes.

[Ding Dang Doo]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

What I'd like to see is some personal boycotts by the athletes.

Not sure if that is fair on the athletes. Many of them have spent the best parts of their lives and made many personal sacrifices to be able to show the world how good they are at their chosen discipline.
They didn't choose the venue, nor would their protest make any difference to the Games (apart from making it less competitive).

This I'm afraid, is one for the governments to sort out.

Pete

[Mark Chase]

There is no doubt the Chinese govt are quick to resort to force and suppression to get what they want. However the Tibet issue is far from being simple. China and Tibet have been integrated since Genghis Kahn in the mid 12th century. Control has yo yo'd back and forth since.

Ultimately Tibet called in Chinas army in 1740 (I think) to repel a Mongolian invasion. China took full control but let it slip till around 1910 then forcibly reestablished it by overthrowing rebels who had killed the Chinese commissioner.

Ask any Chinese in the street and they will laugh if you say Tibet is not part of China.

Nowadays it turns out Tibet is worth fighting for and there seems to be an upwelling of support for the free Tibet lobby. I am not 100% certain of their moral stance. There is concern its just a bunch of capitalists who want to rape Tibet of its natural resources.

However there is no doubt any fight against the Chinese control is being met with a level of ferocity we today consider unacceptable, Unlike when we were doing it in Northern Ireland a few years ago.

I thought the British were at fault then and i think the Chinese are at fault now. I didn't sign up to freeing Northern Ireland from British rule then and I am not inclined to sign up for a free Tibet today.

I would however willingly sign a paper for a stop to the use of unnecessary violence by the Chinese.

I am willing to be swayed by argument on this as being married to a Chinese wife i only get their side of things, but i have to say the history books appear to back it up.


ATB

Mark

[Tunicates]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

China and Tibet have been integrated since Genghis Kahn in the mid 12th century. Control has yo yo'd back and forth since.



Ask any Chinese in the street and they will laugh if you say Tibet is not part of China.

Nowadays it turns out Tibet is worth fighting for and there seems to be an upwelling of support for the free Tibet lobby. I am not 100% certain of their moral stance. There is concern its just a bunch of capitalists who want to rape Tibet of its natural resources.

However there is no doubt any fight against the Chinese control is being met with a level of ferocity we today consider unacceptable, Unlike when we were doing it in Northern Ireland a few years ago.

I thought the British were at fault then and i think the Chinese are at fault now. I didn't sign up to freeing Northern Ireland from British rule then and I am not inclined to sign up for a free Tibet today.

I would however willingly sign a paper for a stop to the use of unnecessary violence by the Chinese.

I am willing to be swayed by argument on this as being married to a Chinese wife i only get their side of things, but i have to say the history books appear to back it up.


ATB

Mark

No they dont.

The idea (in the mind of someone that is 'Chinese')that Mongolia is China, or that Tibet is China is only the result of long-standing assimilationism that the Chinese have used for eons.
China itself only came into being after Gengis Kahn united it by imposing a burocratic system of governance, and from there on China was limited only by geography. You might as well call it all Mongolia.

The fact that China was asked to help Tibet fight off a Mongolian invasion or that the Chinese have imposed rule on Tibet at various times is in no way a reason for them to claim that Tibet is Chinese or should remain so. You might as well argue that as Britain was taken over by Normans in the past we might as well be governed by France now.

[Adrian Kelland]

Unfortunately I think that a petition won't make the slightest bit of difference. You need actions that make a difference. Of course most of those actions will also have a downside to what part of the population does benefit, but hey ho...

So I suggest you stop buying the goods made there. If you can. They seem to make just about everything you might want, especially if you want it cheap. Computer bits and bobs, clothes, shoes and sporting kit including dive kit. Cheap drysuits especially. I suspect it won't be easy though, you've probably bought into it all already. Are you willing to pay the price too?

Adrian

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Tunicates are Mad

No they dont.

The idea (in the mind of someone that is 'Chinese')that Mongolia is China, or that Tibet is China is only the result of long-standing assimilationism that the Chinese have used for eons.
China itself only came into being after Gengis Kahn united it by imposing a burocratic system of governance, and from there on China was limited only by geography. You might as well call it all Mongolia.

The fact that China was asked to help Tibet fight off a Mongolian invasion or that the Chinese have imposed rule on Tibet at various times is in no way a reason for them to claim that Tibet is Chinese or should remain so. You might as well argue that as Britain was taken over by Normans in the past we might as well be governed by France now.

Its an interesting comment but what do we do about Ireland, Scotland, The Falklands etc? Should we hand them back to their rightfull rulers?

We handed Hong Kong back I suppose but that was just embarrassing seeing as we got it with British Govt backed drug money.

I wonder if the Boxers having attempted to over throw the British drug barons felt any more happy that they were slaughtered by the British Army than the Tibetens do about being slaughtered by the Chinese?

Genghis Kahn combined china and Tibet in the 1200's. He didn't create China FFS the great wall was started in 200bc which was 1400years before Genhgis. Just becaause the Ming era made it famous by laying bricks dosent meen it didnt exist till the 1300's

As I say I am willing to accept argumnet but id like at least a little pointer as to some relevent historical fact on this just so i can stop my wife laughing her head off.

ATB

Mark