HR advice wanted please!

[sean0801]

Help please HR types.

In a nutshell, a bloke where i work (not me) got overpaid a coupla months ago to the tune of £500, he's a decent hardworkin guy and bloody good at what he does but he is paid not much over minium wage and kept his gob shut and spent the money. His payslip said the correct amount, but the amount paid to his account was £500 heavy. Them's the facts, today he has been told he has to attend a disiplinary for not fessing up to the overpay, and next month they are gonna retrieve the £500 from his wage regardless of his commitments. He has told them he didn't realise he had been overpaid.

So question to you's please (regardless of morality issue please) is a, how bad an offence has he committed? and b, can they just retrieve the cash from him when he has a wife and baby to support?

cheers folks

[Sean]

He will have to pay the money back, as for the disciplinary I would suggest that the stance he takes is I never check my statement just look at my remaining balance, the wife take care of the finances. She would not question how much money that goes in just manages the spending. I would also tell them that he can’t afford the complete £500 coming out at once, as it was their error they should recoup the amount over a few months. I had a mate that had a similar experience, he recorded everything took notes he was looking at loosing a complete months pay in one hit, when he stated that this would put him and his family in serious trouble with their finances the company basically told him it was his issue, they soon changed their mind when he said he would seek legal advice as he thought the company were acting unfair as it was their error not his.

Some (not all) HR people think there the bees knees and their a law unto themselves don’t be pushed into a corner TAKE another person into the disciplinary, staff / union rep even a legal person it’s his right to do this. And don’t be afraid to voice his case

Sean

[ScubaNat]

Well, I wouldn't say it was a firing offence, but it is a bit naughty! Although granted, it was the company's fault. He should check in his contract just to make sure that there is nothing outlining this sort of offence (they might do it on a regular basis, and so have put something in there). He should definitely take in a witness, someone on his side, either a colleague or other friend, and make sure he gets a copy of all of the notes and the minutes following the meeting. They can take it from him in one lump sum regardless of his situation, but hopefully if they are a sympathetic employer, they won't!

[sean0801]

Cheers mate, that's pretty much the line he is gonna take

Does anyone know if they can legally take the money back in one hit?

[sean0801]

Originally Posted by ScubaNat

Well, I wouldn't say it was a firing offence, but it is a bit naughty! Although granted, it was the company's fault. He should check in his contract just to make sure that there is nothing outlining this sort of offence (they might do it on a regular basis, and so have put something in there). He should definitely take in a witness, someone on his side, either a colleague or other friend, and make sure he gets a copy of all of the notes and the minutes following the meeting. They can take it from him in one lump sum regardless of his situation, but hopefully if they are a sympathetic employer, they won't!

Cheers Nat, they are not a sympathetic company (turn over a billion or so) and won't give a fcuk if he can't feed his kid for a month

[wreckweasel]

They cant. I've been in the very same situation with an overpayment I didnt notice. They have to agree a reasonable payment schedule.

[calski]

As far as I know, a company cannot take payment without agreement from the employee. The exception is when a member of staff is leaving the company and anything owing to the company is deducted from the final pay made.

It happened to me back in England several years ago: deduction was made without my consent. I went ballistic. They returned the money IN CASH and we're very sorry indeed. We then figured it out together.

He needs to stand his ground as HR (no offense to any HR people here) can be very "uptight" about a lot of things. It's amazing how they will often retract / change their stance if you take in a witness or quote legalize at them...

Is it any coincidence Dilberts' HR rep "Catbert" is called "Catbert, Evil director of Human Resources"?

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by Sean

He will have to pay the money back, as for the disciplinary I would suggest that the stance he takes is I never check my statement just look at my remaining balance, the wife take care of the finances. She would not question how much money that goes in just manages the spending. I would also tell them that he can’t afford the complete £500 coming out at once, as it was their error they should recoup the amount over a few months. I had a mate that had a similar experience, he recorded everything took notes he was looking at loosing a complete months pay in one hit, when he stated that this would put him and his family in serious trouble with their finances the company basically told him it was his issue, they soon changed their mind when he said he would seek legal advice as he thought the company were acting unfair as it was their error not his.

Some (not all) HR people think there the bees knees and their a law unto themselves don’t be pushed into a corner TAKE another person into the disciplinary, staff / union rep even a legal person it’s his right to do this. And don’t be afraid to voice his case

Sean

it is his statutory right to take a TU rep or a colleague. Many companies don't let you (and are within their rights to do so) take a solicitor or other person from outside the company.

Originally Posted by sean0801

Cheers mate, that's pretty much the line he is gonna take

Does anyone know if they can legally take the money back in one hit?

Yes. They can, however, if he can't afford it then it makes sense for them to come up with a reasonable plan to get it back

Originally Posted by wreckweasel

They cant. I've been in the very same situation with an overpayment I didnt notice. They have to agree a reasonable payment schedule.

Wrong. they can. The minimum lenght of thime they are entitled to recover the money is the same period they gave it. If they gave it over one omenth, they are entitled to reclaim it over one month. Generally, they don't, though, because it makes for a very pissed off employee who isn't oging to be particularly loyal and hardowrking.

Originally Posted by calski

As far as I know, a company cannot take payment without agreement from the employee. The exception is when a member of staff is leaving the company and anything owing to the company is deducted from the final pay made.

It happened to me back in England several years ago: deduction was made without my consent. I went ballistic. They returned the money IN CASH and we're very sorry indeed. We then figured it out together.

He needs to stand his ground as HR (no offense to any HR people here) can be very "uptight" about a lot of things. It's amazing how they will often retract / change their stance if you take in a witness or quote legalize at them...

Is it any coincidence Dilberts' HR rep "Catbert" is called "Catbert, Evil director of Human Resources"?

That is unlawful deduction of wages. an employer is entitled to recover monies over paid. They are not allowed to remove or fail to pay money which the employee is entitled to.
This is not unlawful deduction of wages.

I don't know why it would be a disciplinary matter though. Unless it isn't actually a disciplinary hearing, but an investigation into whicever twit paid him the wrong amount of money. Lots of people see the words 'disciplinary' and get into a panic. Read the letter carefully.

PM sent.

[sean0801]

Originally Posted by Scubee

it is his statutory right to take a TU rep or a colleague. Many companies don't let you (and are within their rights to do so) take a solicitor or other person from outside the company.

Yes. They can, however, if he can't afford it then it makes sense for them to come up with a reasonable plan to get it back

Wrong. they can. The minimum lenght of thime they are entitled to recover the money is the same period they gave it. If they gave it over one omenth, they are entitled to reclaim it over one month. Generally, they don't, though, because it makes for a very pissed off employee who isn't oging to be particularly loyal and hardowrking.

That is unlawful deduction of wages. an employer is entitled to recover monies over paid. They are not allowed to remove or fail to pay money which the employee is entitled to.
This is not unlawful deduction of wages.

I don't know why it would be a disciplinary matter though. Unless it isn't actually a disciplinary hearing, but an investigation into whicever twit paid him the wrong amount of money. Lots of people see the words 'disciplinary' and get into a panic. Read the letter carefully.

PM sent.

Thanks Morag, i'm not sure if they have sent him a letter about it yet. He was pulled into office today and the words disiplinary and fraud were used. He's panicked and asked for my advice because i don't actually work for the company directly, just a contractor. I will ask him about letter in the mornin (his shift just finished) and if you don't mind i may take you up on the offer of advice depending on what he says to me.

Thanks alot

[Scubee]

Originally Posted by sean0801

Thanks Morag, i'm not sure if they have sent him a letter about it yet. He was pulled into office today and the words disiplinary and fraud were used. He's panicked and asked for my advice because i don't actually work for the company directly, just a contractor. I will ask him about letter in the mornin (his shift just finished) and if you don't mind i may take you up on the offer of advice depending on what he says to me.

Thanks alot

Under the law, he has to be 'invited' to a meeting in writing. That is where employers cock up, because they steam in without knowing what their responsibilities are.

Use the words 'disciplinary' , 'fraud' and the other word 'sack' and the emploee generally goes into a state of not knowing what the hell is going on.

Just as another thought - is there a TU? if so, get them involved - provided he is a member!