Fuel costs.

[dry suit diver]

No, it's 'Save the cheerleader, save the planet'.

What really needs wiping out is a good percentage of the human race and the support systems (farming, power etc.) along with them.

Adrian

mother natures trying, and with a fair bit of help from the Burmese government too in not letting aid in.

but we aren't allowed to post about things like this anymore in our cotton wool PC country.

[dry suit diver]

Thats the most stupid thing I have ever read.

Fuel price affects everything. A carton of milk has gone up 16p recently and they have blamed transportation costs for this price hike.

Fuel price affects EVERYTHING and its there for outrageously naive to believe it a good thing because just because we will start considering more economical cars.

don't forget that british hauliers are being undercut by european ones who can fill up with cheaper diesel; not have to pay horrendous operating licence fees etc , or is this a govt way of going look we reduced the countries carbon footprint as they are foreign trucks.

Offer me LPG for my Shogun direct from the show room if you want to be green and don't give me childish crap about £1.30/ltr for diesel will put me off buying such a nasty car. Fact is I need a 7 seater car thats 4wheel drive and the cost of fuel is not particularly relevant because ALL the cars that fit my needs suffer the same fuel problems.

Offer me bio fuel, offer me LPG Ill take it in a heart beat. Dint lie to me and say by taxing me an extra £300 a month your doing me a favor.

same here, i got the new jeep cos the old one wasn't big enough for what i need, and the public transport system is falling down when it concerns families- I can go to Leeds in the Jeep at the drop of a hat and it costs me £70 in fuel Ok there are other addons to include for running costs but if it sat on the road and didn't move i would have to pay these.

this cost doesn't change if I take the family- now go on a train- cheapest I could find for the four of us and never mind the faff factor of getting to Kings cross on the tube with a nipper and luggage etc ( parents of a sub 1yr old will understand the stuff required) was nearly £400 wheres the incentive to get out of the car.?

And please stop saying crap like your the only one on here who cares about the environment. I bet If I spent an hour in your house I could prove you're about as environmentally friendly as a Calcutta Taxi.

You remind me of an old friend. She is a nurse and she gave me a right telling off about the damage I was doing to the ozone layer with my old Porsche 911. She was a bit of a hippy and owned a Citron 2CV.

After I pointed out the emissions from her 2CV were 280% higher than those from my Porsche but she only got 40% better fuel economy she stormed off in a huff.

oh the lentil weavers don't like that and they dont like being reminded of the pollution and CO2 footprint of manufacturing batteries for electric vehicles , or the footprint of generating the electrickery to charge them- hybrids are still guilty too

Clarkson calles you lot Ecomentalists and I tend to agree. If we realy want to save the planet we should all stop drinking milk and eating butter.

Cow farts do hundreds of times more damage to the ozone layer than all the cars

Wipe out the dairy herds and save the planet.

ATB

Mark

and don't forget he ban on aerobic sports as this produces a huge amount of CO2 too.


I am not addicted to hydrocarbons I just havent been offered a viable alternative thats going to work

[Adrian Kelland]

oh the lentil weavers don't like that and they dont like being reminded of the pollution and CO2 footprint of manufacturing batteries for electric vehicles , or the footprint of generating the electrickery to charge them- hybrids are still guilty too

Indeed. They also forget the loses due to transmission, although this could be seen as the equivalent of moving fuel by lorry.

[dry suit diver]

Perhaps even as the population decreases this will be true. The worst off will be those that suffer most and will die first. These are the people who affect the environment least.

I am truly sorry that I don't have an answer but lowering the cost of the cause of the problem is not going to improve the situation.



Mark, I am sorry. I think you're a decent bloke and a good diver, but when it come to this you are full of shit. Clarkson is a fucking twat and the last part of a group of elderly shit heads that slowly are becoming a laughing stock. I find him amusing, likeable even, but not worthy of any serious comment. His knowledge of the environment is even less than his understanding of automotive engineering, quite an achievement.

This is an immensely complex subject and to be fair there are no easy answers. Higher fuel prices are part of a jigsaw. They are opposed by all politicians (contrary to the BS posted here) because they are inflationary (as you rightly point out Mark). They are not a tax "milk cow" with no consequences save a few red faced Telegraph readers in Cheltenham.

Faced with the catastrophe that is the despoliation of our planet leaving our kids with a future of war, famine, poverty and misery its very easy to say "can't do anything". Making fuel expensive moves things in the right direction because it gives an incentive to people to reduce their use of fossil fuels and it makes renewable energy more attractive in our market based economy.

I'm afraid I care as little for the hardship this causes people as they care for the environment.

Chris

see the last bit of my prvious post .


give me a viable alternative thats not just shifting the problem elsewhere and I will use alternative energies.

wind turbine on the house certainly sir, would sir like to see how much hydrocarbons got burnt to produce this erect this service this regularly? thought not as its really only a faux green effort.

oh and trying to get planning consent for a wind turbine for home gets a similar response to wallking into a childrens home with paedo tattoed on your forehead.

[SoggyFox]

I am not addicted to hydrocarbons I just havent been offered a viable alternative thats going to work

you got to ask why we haven't been offered an alternative, we can put a man on the moon and send vehicles to other planets but for the clever little humans we can only use fossil fuels in our cars.

I wonder does it have anything to do with the massive national, global and commercial vested interest in the profits made from Oil?

which companies made huge profits this year, countries being invaded to secure furture oil reserves, currencies inextricable tied to the cost of oil, Opec holding the world to ransom over production, Oil producing states with piss poor human rights 'over looked', Dodgy trade deals with oil producers and governments cover ups under 'national interest'.

our world is linked to Oil and will be for the foreseeable future, we bury our head in the sand if we think theres is a way out of this mess, i hold little hope for this society over the coming years, earth will recover but our species will be a footnote if we're lucky.

truly we're fcuked.

[dry suit diver]

you got to ask why we haven't been offered an alternative, we can put a man on the moon and send vehicles to other planets but for the clever little humans we can only use fossil fuels in our cars.

I wonder does it have anything to do with the massive national, global and commercial vested interest in the profits made from Oil?

nail head meet hammer

although if you beleive the BS from BP, shell et al they are looking into alternative energies.

[Sonicthediver]

And what reputable scientific peer reviewed journal did you get that bollox from. I can't be bothered to go through the science, just look it up anywhere. Even the most cursory search would turn up data to show the opposite is the case.

I searched on World CO2 levels, these are the first 2 hits

NOAA paper

Grauniad article

Or are they bollox as well because they don't happen to fit some pet theory?

Gareth

I suggest you read the NOAA paper more carfully, and try to understand what its really saying. (not enough data, results inconclusive, mostly)
As for the Grauniad article (better known as press bo££ocks) I can show you many absurd and totally bullsh&t press storys, scoops etc.

My infomation came via the Natural History Museum.

[dry suit diver]

I suggest you read the NOAA paper more carfully, and try to understand what its really saying. (not enough data, results inconclusive, mostly)
As for the Grauniad article (better known as press bo££ocks) I can show you many absurd and totally bullsh&t press storys, scoops etc.

My infomation came via the Natural History Museum.

gareths just feeling guilty as he commisions the coal fired stations in China

[aclivity]

you got to ask why we haven't been offered an alternative, we can put a man on the moon and send vehicles to other planets but for the clever little humans we can only use fossil fuels in our cars.

I wonder does it have anything to do with the massive national, global and commercial vested interest in the profits made from Oil?

which companies made huge profits this year, countries being invaded to secure furture oil reserves, currencies inextricable tied to the cost of oil, Opec holding the world to ransom over production, Oil producing states with piss poor human rights 'over looked', Dodgy trade deals with oil producers and governments cover ups under 'national interest'.

our world is linked to Oil and will be for the foreseeable future, we bury our head in the sand if we think theres is a way out of this mess, i hold little hope for this society over the coming years, earth will recover but our species will be a footnote if we're lucky.

truly we're fcuked.

Your post reminded me of a Billy Bragg song, called "The Marching Song of the Covert Battalions"

With regards to putting man on the moon, didn't that involve lots of hydrocarbon / fossil based rocket fuels? I seem to recall that Ion drive is pretty much still in theory stage, and anyway, it is not a suitable technology for launch.

Anyway, my main point is kind of supporting Chrisch's posts - the cost of fuel going up is an inevitability as we run out of the stuff. Unless we find another way to power things, the machinery will all grind to a halt. I know it's a trite thing to say, but I read once that we do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children - so we may be dead & buried when the power stops, but the next generation will have to live with it.

If the cost of fuel going up makes you think twice about driving 3 miles to an out of town supermarket, and instead walk 200 yards to a local shop, then it's worked. Never mind the fact that the benefits of a more localised way of life are stupendously good, from making sure that money goes in the local economy, not in Cheshunt (Tesco) or the US (Asda / Walmart), to the fact that local food tastes better (it really does, I didn't believe it either until I tried a farm box scheme), and the general fitness of the population increases as more people choose to walk short journeys rather than driving slightly longer ones. People will get to know their neighbours, a sense of community will arise, meaning that bands of feral yobs will not be allowed to form. The sun will shine like it did when were children, and the winters will be full of snow.

Maybe the last bit is wishful thinking.

[dry suit diver]

Your post reminded me of a Billy Bragg song, called "The Marching Song of the Covert Battalions"

With regards to putting man on the moon, didn't that involve lots of hydrocarbon / fossil based rocket fuels? I seem to recall that Ion drive is pretty much still in theory stage, and anyway, it is not a suitable technology for launch.

Anyway, my main point is kind of supporting Chrisch's posts - the cost of fuel going up is an inevitability as we run out of the stuff. Unless we find another way to power things, the machinery will all grind to a halt. I know it's a trite thing to say, but I read once that we do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children - so we may be dead & buried when the power stops, but the next generation will have to live with it.

If the cost of fuel going up makes you think twice about driving 3 miles to an out of town supermarket, and instead walk 200 yards to a local shop, then it's worked. Never mind the fact that the benefits of a more localised way of life are stupendously good, from making sure that money goes in the local economy, not in Cheshunt (Tesco) or the US (Asda / Walmart), to the fact that local food tastes better (it really does, I didn't believe it either until I tried a farm box scheme), and the general fitness of the population increases as more people choose to walk short journeys rather than driving slightly longer ones. People will get to know their neighbours, a sense of community will arise, meaning that bands of feral yobs will not be allowed to form. The sun will shine like it did when were children, and the winters will be full of snow.
Maybe the last bit is wishful thinking.

I take it you mean this bit is wishful thinking.


tried the farm box, the scum from the local estate nicked it as it gets delivered while we are out at work.


the local shop sells fruit and veg but it doesn't look very nice, the tomatos were fairly tasteless, and thats going some considering i get the majority from Tescos.

I do get my beer from there though.