Method Statements

[Lou]

Originally Posted by sean0801

How did we ever manage without them?

I don't know - but will it be your arse on the line for a corporate manslaughter prosecution if it all goes wrong?

[sean0801]

Originally Posted by Lou

I don't know - but will it be your arse on the line for a corporate manslaughter prosecution if it all goes wrong?

Ok, ***note to self*** don't kill anyone at work tomorrow

[Lou]

Originally Posted by sean0801

Ok, ***note to self*** don't kill anyone at work tomorrow

Or let any dumb contractors kill themselves......

It is a serious issue for those who contract out work. I hate doing contractor inductions, but, we have been told in very clear language 9and the awful HSE video backed it up) that we have to ensure that *everyone* works safely - and that means everyone including those who do not work for us, but are contracted by us. So, the guy that services the boilers, or calibrates the scales, or installs the fire alarms, or cleans the toilets.....

[Sparky750]

Originally Posted by Lou

You should find yourself getting asked more often for RAs, Method Statements and proof of competency - the Corporate Manslaughter Act will see to that. If you are a contractor on a site, the site is responsible for ensuring that you are safe and that you work safely. If they fail to do so they can be liable in the event of an accident. I have sent contractors of site for failing to be able to follow their own method statement and I will stand behind that decision 100%. Sorry, but your 'common sense' when you are a stranger to me does not cut the mustard.

Isn't it funny how these things can be bypassed when the sh*t hits the fan though

Method statements, risk assessments and permits to work are the reason a large company had me on a rig for 7 days to do 9 hours work earlier this month. No wonder prices are so high and going up but still people have to justify their jobs i suppose Although i was paid for the 7 days which just bought my revo They couldn't start the process before i got there because i needed to read and sign all said paper work before it could be put through the system and no i couldn't do that electronically for some reason The difference 2 months ago when production was going to be stopped if i didn't fix a fault was climb off chopper dump kit fix problem have some food and a shower chopper home the next day. Far too many jobsworths in any form of the construction industry IMO all trying to justify their existence because they can't do anything productive. I'm all for safe practices of work but please some use some common sense and let professionals carry out their work and also realise you produce a grand total of feck all so you are not above the people who can actually do the job sorry rant over

[Lou]

The problem is that you aren't just talking about highly qualified or experienced professionals. Not sure about 7 days though :o.....my inductions take 20 mins for something simple. Something more complex might be an hour or so. It is about ensuring that the contractors have got everything they need, that we are all aware of any specific risks, and any site-specific risks - from both sides - and then just making sure that everything goes to plan.

The professionals are able to produce the risk assessments and method statements no problems in my experience, exactly because they are professional.

[Sparky750]

Originally Posted by Lou

The problem is that you aren't just talking about highly qualified or experienced professionals. Not sure about 7 days though :o.....my inductions take 20 mins for something simple. Something more complex might be an hour or so. It is about ensuring that the contractors have got everything they need, that we are all aware of any specific risks, and any site-specific risks - from both sides - and then just making sure that everything goes to plan.

The professionals are able to produce the risk assessments and method statements no problems in my experience, exactly because they are professional.

20 mins to an hour is acceptable and exactly how it's been for a few years now for a new site, but these things are starting to go on for longer and longer. The CSCS scheme for building sites was meant to cut it all down so you knew the general things but had a little brief on any site specific problems, that hasn't happened in the slightest if anything sites are getting worse now. This is slowly but surely pushing the prices up of everything most of my competitors and my quotes are now a good 30-40% higher as a direct result of all this.

[Lou]

So that is where common sense has broken down then, I'll agree with that.

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Dive now work never

?? Legal requirement is for a Risk Assessment only, a method statement is considered good practice as I understand the legislation.

no the harness and mansafe system , work at height regs.


as for this post, correct.

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Sparky750

Isn't it funny how these things can be bypassed when the sh*t hits the fan though

Method statements, risk assessments and permits to work are the reason a large company had me on a rig for 7 days to do 9 hours work earlier this month. No wonder prices are so high and going up but still people have to justify their jobs i suppose Although i was paid for the 7 days which just bought my revo They couldn't start the process before i got there because i needed to read and sign all said paper work before it could be put through the system and no i couldn't do that electronically for some reason The difference 2 months ago when production was going to be stopped if i didn't fix a fault was climb off chopper dump kit fix problem have some food and a shower chopper home the next day. Far too many jobsworths in any form of the construction industry IMO all trying to justify their existence because they can't do anything productive. I'm all for safe practices of work but please some use some common sense and let professionals carry out their work and also realise you produce a grand total of feck all so you are not above the people who can actually do the job sorry rant over

Hmmm and how did Piper Alpha go up then? was it people not following proper procedures, failure to document and record actions correctly?

this is why we have Risk assesments and Method Statements written from them.

unfortunately its the people who haven't got common sense we have to legislate for in the construction industry.

1 person every three years being killed on site from our company stats Thats too much. The Main contractors group was set up after the govt said to the industry as a whole " sort your act out on safety or we will pass very restrictive legislation" construction deaths have dropped but not as much as we would like then to, major injuries have dropped too- minors howver have shot through the roof- why?? because we encourage reporting of all accidents ss we can carry out epidiemiology and see what we need to do to reduce accidents.


the figures show that for every 65 major injuries and thats countrywide and parent company wide we get a death, it has been running on a three year cycle thios year however we have a blip and are at 40 already after 6 months, my guess is theres going to be a death on one of our sites in october.

thats why we are tight on H&S .

from a petrochem background i am surprised you think its all bad, I sat an induction at one refinery/storage depot where the plant manager came in and told us the plant had not had a lost time incident for 5 years and we were not going to change that, he set out his stall from day one and we acted accordingly.

I was on the tools for yearsand thinking bvack to some of the stuff I did I wonder how I survived as lomng as i did, sheer luck i think.

we have responsibilities under CDM and this has now changed so people cannot wriggle out of responsibilities like they used to.

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by Sparky750

20 mins to an hour is acceptable and exactly how it's been for a few years now for a new site, but these things are starting to go on for longer and longer. The CSCS scheme for building sites was meant to cut it all down so you knew the general things but had a little brief on any site specific problems, that hasn't happened in the slightest if anything sites are getting worse now. This is slowly but surely pushing the prices up of everything most of my competitors and my quotes are now a good 30-40% higher as a direct result of all this.

and on major sites there are a lot of issues that will need covering - welfare , accident reporting, known hazards, access egress disciplinary, do's and dont's. we cannot assume that everybody going to that site will know everything about that site.

we have mini inductions after about 6 months where we pass on all the changes from original induction to the workforce. We do this with toolbox talks too but the mini induction hammers home the points.