you can help stop whaling :-)

[Norseman]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Snash @ Mar. 31 2004,11:00)]I think Greenpeace et al would argue that these are not mutually exlusive and that they are doing just that.

<font color='#0000FF'>Greenpeace yes.

People here on this board?

By supporting Greenpeace you're also saying it's okay to use illegal means for an unjustified cause (ie stopping whaling boats executing their legal right to do their job.)

People within GP has said that whaling really isn't a big issue environmentally. But that's where the money lies...
(Sorry for not being able to get a proper quote right now. I read it during our last whaling discussion)
Besides you may fight whaling as much as you want for me. It's not a big issue. And that's the point. It's not a big issue. Other environmental disasters are. And that's where people's focus should be. Not on cute whales with big brains.

With otherwise highest regards,

Kyrre

[Snash]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Norseman @ Mar. 31 2004,10:15)]People within GP has said that whaling really isn't a big issue environmentally. But that's where the money lies...

and also a consciousness raiser amongst the public as it is a headline grabber - as whales are big and fluffy (well you know what I mean).

Simon

[Norseman]

<font color='#0000FF'>I read through the comments written by pledgers and I honestly have to say:

What utter bollox.

Do they actually know what they're talking about?
What is barbaric about whale killing?
Why shouldn't we kill whales since they have feelings?

I'll take any good argument if it's well founded but could someone please give me any good reasons why we shouldn't take out a sustainable amount of whales as we do with most other edible species in this world? Why should whales be exempted from this practise?

Should we all eat tofu? (Yes, Lou, I know you think we should   )

And besides what: What kind of bullsh*t pledge is this? I would CONSIDER going to Iceland IF they stop killing whales?
There are pledgers from India, Indonesia, Iraq, Hull. Do you actually think any of these would ever go to Iceland of all places? 31.745 people were thinking of going to Iceland but thought &quot;Nah, think we'll go to Ibiza instead. It's an island, right?&quot;.
And meanwhile money comes rolling in. Just click that top right corner...

Kyrre
Edit: More gall added.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Norseman @ Mar. 31 2004,11:42)]What is barbaric about whale killing?


I'll take any good argument if it's well founded but could someone please give me any good reasons why we shouldn't take out a sustainable amount of whales as we do with most other edible species in this world? Why should whales be exempted from this practise?

Should we all eat tofu? (Yes, Lou, I know you think we should   )

Ok Kyrre, what *isn't* barbaric about commercial whale hunting? &nbsp;There can't be any argument from you that it causes prolonged suffering to a highly sentient creature? &nbsp;Forget about whether ot not whales are cute, forget about whether it is a &quot;traditional&quot; foo source and just look at modern whalers. &nbsp;Explosive harpoons to incapitate, not kill, then dragged alongside to wait whilst they butcher the previous poor unfortunate before finally being carved up with a good chance of still being alive at this point. &nbsp;We would legislate against these methods on land (even if they wouldn't necessarily be adhered to) but not for those that live in the sea apparently!

As to whether a few thousand whales are a sustainable harvest - is that a few thousand for Iceland, a few thousand for Norway, a few thousand for Japan, a few thousand for Tonga, for the Inuit, for all the other countries who now see an open market? &nbsp;All of a sudden you havepirate whalers, you have commercial fleets disrupting migration of breeding patterns and your sustainable &quot;harvest&quot; isn't so sustainable any more. &nbsp;Look at what happened towards the end of legal whaling. &nbsp;Look at the damage that men in rowing boats did to great whale populations and ask yourself why we would be any better now when, as you so rightly say, we can't even stop fishing for cod because some people think that it is still susatinable despite the opinions of the experts.

Tofu is good! &nbsp;Honest! &nbsp;But get the marinated stuff, its much better.....

I do agree with you that the pledge is largely bullshit. &nbsp;But if a bit of bullshit helps then I'm all for it. &nbsp;Who knows, Bagdad and Rekyavik could be twinned up tourist destinations! &nbsp;

Lou

[lizardfish]

<font color='#810541'>Hey all..... Sorry I haven't been back on this thread for a while. I actually got caught up in a huge fight on scubaboard about the same link I posted there..... eventually the thread got pulled after some really bad trolling and after some nazi-esque moderators had their way with me..... I decided to leave SB forever. At least you guys over here are a lot more rational and chilled.

So back to the debate.  I am not going to argue about Greenpeace, they do have their faults. I also don't agree with telling communities who rely on catching whales in self sustaining way, to stop whaling (but I cringe at how they may kill the whales). Iceland commercial whaling is a different story though in my opinion.

Whaling is an issue environmentally and economically. Whaling will and does put populations and species at risk in addtion to being cruel (I don't give a rats arse about how cute and cuddley they are but they blatantly suffer more than fish!) and also risk having direct impacts on tourism and the economy. If certain places loose whales or tourists who are appauled about whaling this could have a huge impact on their economy. I am not sure if more people are employed in the tourist and whale watching industry than would be/ are employed in the whaling industry, but the amount that Iceland would make from the tourists visiting the country when compared with what they would make from whaling is way more! (see the link for the pledge, for an estimate on how much money Iceland would generate is all the people who singed it did go to Iceland, it is more of a symbolic gesture rather than an actual promise).

As for the comments made by SOME of the pledgers, yes some of them are talking crap but they are still saying they are more likely to go visit Iceland, and whether they are ignorant or not, doesn't make a difference to Iceland's potential profits.


Thanks to all of you who have so far signed the pledge. I do believe it's one good thing, at least, that Greenpeace are doing.

[Chris Hall]

<font color='#728FCE'>A question?

What other species on this planet has wiped out another species? Oh! Not to mention other races of the same species.

We, the human race, the so called master species on this planet.

Time to admit that we are the problem, along with our greedy ways. And I'll put my hand up and say, &quot;Yes, I'm part of it all to&quot;. It's time we changed.

But that is up to you.

[lizardfish]

<font color='#810541'>Love your point but think it is more accurate to ask what species has driven thousands of others into extinction.... as I think it is likely that one similar species has out competed another. For example some species naturally raft to islands, arrive and wipe out other similar species (can't find an example though sorry). Just didn't want anyone to jump on here and be all cocky and make your point invalid as it was a very good one

If anyone is interested to read about the current mass extinction crisis here is a link:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994797

[lizardfish]

<font color='#810541'>More on the whaling issue.

http://www.whaling.fo/thepilot.htm#Killingthewhales

Whaling in the Faroe Islands. The information, you usually don't read!

There was a topic about this few months back so I thought this website was more relevant to that one, but still a different take on whaling, so thought I'd stick it on this topic.

Do tell me if you guys are getting bored of this!??

[Norseman]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Lou @ Mar. 31 2004,20:34)]Ok Kyrre, what *isn't* barbaric about commercial whale hunting?  There can't be any argument from you that it causes prolonged suffering to a highly sentient creature?  Forget about whether ot not whales are cute, forget about whether it is a &quot;traditional&quot; foo source and just look at modern whalers.  Explosive harpoons to incapitate, not kill, then dragged alongside to wait whilst they butcher the previous poor unfortunate before finally being carved up with a good chance of still being alive at this point.  We would legislate against these methods on land (even if they wouldn't necessarily be adhered to) but not for those that live in the sea apparently!

<font color='#0000FF'>Tsk tsk tsk.

I know there's no point in getting into an argument with you about these issues but I think you should get a few facts right.

Whaling TODAY is proven to be the most effective way of killing OF ALL KINDS, meaning it is more effective than the slaughtering of normal livestock and hunting in general. Immediate death is assured in more than 90% of all incidents.

You CANNOT use pre-1990 information when it comes to these issues, Lou. At least get your facts right.

From sunny Italy,

Kyrre