A Matter of Priorities and Values?

[Phoenix]

There's a fairly low reoffending rate here in Saudi Arabia, I guess the punishments are quite effective but then it's quite difficult to steal when you've lost your tools if not your head. You can even go into a shop here and buy a product such as a camera and take the money along later to pay for it such is the lack of theft (you certainly can in my local camera shop)

Ian

[Mr T.]

Gav and Janos,

Agree with both your last. A trip to the clink for a class of 14/15 year olds might just convince them that it might not necessarily be somewhere they want to end up; kind of 'kill or cure' approach.

I also agree that both the Daily Mail and The Express should be re-registered at the Post Office as 'Comics for the Willfully Misinformed', and NOT 'newspapers.

And Gav, aye, which one exception: I rather think the public couldn't give a tinker's curse whether the sentencing is 'community-based' or 'Devil's Island', as long as they feel safe in their homes/schools/communities etc.

[Iestyn]

<font color='#000080'>Agree wholehartedly with Gavin and with much of what Bren said. Of course you need to use examples, but its important to remember that the factual matrix of even the simplest case is usually quite complex, so there is nearly always some mitigating factor but what they are is rarely mentioned when passing on the story verbally or through the newspapers.

[Gavin Yates]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Simon TW @ April 24 2004,11:33)]Is it not possible that we only have a large prison population cos we don't have the death sentence.

<font color='#000F22'>Murderers and other serious criminals make up quite a lowly percentage of the current prison population.

Overcrowding is mainly due to offenders on relatively short sentences and remand prisoners (England and Wales) not so much in Scotland.

A distinct problem is that we send people to prison for non-payment of fines.

Johnny does something wrong, he gets fined, he pays a fiver on week one then doesn't pay it again. Eventually the cops get a warrant and go and get him and haul him up before the court and he gets more time to pay but doesn't pay and the process begins again.

Whilst this is happening he is not addressing his offending behaviour and carries on possible picking up more fines. Think of the police time this involves?

Eventually the mags/justices/sheriffs have enough and off he goes on an all-expenses paid trip to prison for 3-9 months. Probably a nasty short-term nick - think the Bar-L or Winson Green or Strangeways.

He come out and does it all over again.

All prison does is provide a very expensive - and short term - relief to communities from scrotes.

Forget Europe or ID cards - stopping the revolving door of reoffending is the single most important issue in terms of allowing the ordinary hardworking many to enjoy their lives free from the criminality of the law-breaking few.

[Mr T.]

Amen to that Brother Gavin!

[NeilB]

50 to a cell, one tap in the corner, 2x6 to sleep in, no matress....making it up? Try getting locked up in the Middle East. That'll put you off offending again.

[Janos]

I once had a carrier bag advertising Elat in my luggage when going through Riyadh. It wasn't on display, just a bag that I'd picked up at the diveshow and it came to hand when I was packing my suitcase and needed something to wrap my toiletries in. When my bag was searched at the airport, the security guards went off on one, and I had about 3 or 4 angry Saudi's shouting at me. Fortunately they let me through in the end, but for a while I was concerned they were going to lock me up in the airport. My pants were brown.

But anyways,

Reducing reoffending is a big priority of the service, and rightly so. English prison aren't nice. Not as bad as the middle east true, but they really are horrible places and prisoners really don't like being there. It annoys me when people say English prisons are soft, often by people who've never been inside one. I don't think many prisoners view it as 'an occupational hazard' but don't really believe that they're going to get caught (again). It's not something people rationally think about.

Did you see the programme &quot;Jamies' kitchen&quot; about 15 kids who wanted to become chefs? And three or four of them couldn't haul they're lazy arses out of bed even though they'd been offered the opportunity of a lifetime? And they knew it rationally, and when anyone spoke to them about it they knew they were fucking up, but STILL couldn't get their arses out of bed.

I think it's the same with persistant criminals. They leave jail, and as soon as they get out, they hang around with their old mates, get into drugs again, and then back into petty theft. Even if you give them an opportunity, it's too easy for them to slip back into their previous life becuase that's the soft option. No hard decisions required. And that's why you need a whole load of reoffending behaviour programmes to try and get them to break this cycle.

But that's expensive (though nowhere near as expensive as a year inside) and very hard to do when the population is as overcrowded as it is at the moment.

All very much IMHO of course.

Laters,
&nbsp; &nbsp;Janos

[DIVE BUDDHA]

i find that any laws in this country always seems to be on the side of the person who as commited the crime instead of the the person who had their lives violated

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Mind you, if someone broke into my house to steal my property, I'd like to hit him hard, but the law won't let me. In fact I believe he could sue me.

this quote kind of sums this country up from capel diver,i find that this is a very contensious issue amongst most people and all the argueing in the world will probably never change the thinking of people in power and those who make and uphold the law &nbsp; &nbsp;

[Gavin Yates]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (yipeediver @ April 25 2004,10:48)]i find that any laws in this country always seems to be on the side of the person who as commited the crime instead of the the person who had their lives violated

<font color='#000F22'>Wonderful hyperbole but not true.

There are problems with law surrounding unlawful entry to houses and rights of self-protection for householders.

This amounts to a very few &nbsp;- albeit high-profile cases per year.

The problem for law makers is where do you draw the line. Do we protect the householder who shoots a six-year-old who sneaks into his garden to get his ball back?

This area of law needs looking at carefully but despite what the Daily Mail tells you there are no quick fixes.

On the other points - Janos - absolutely.

Prisons are not nice places and the majority of the population never see what they are really like.

If anyone thinks that the afore-mentioned establishment are &quot;like holiday camps&quot; then they should go and see one.