Birth of the Universe - documentary on TV.

[Finless]

Yes, I made the mistake of watching it again and trying to understand some of the concepts and I have reached a few conclusions of my own:-

1. I can not conceive of the "nothingness" that existed before the big bang.

2. Does anyone on YD understand how they reached the Big Bang theory and subsequent theories? Given that I understand about the back ground radiation bit but how can they say that equals the residue of the BB?

3. How do they think they know this stuff. Are they insane? (THEY = the boffin chaps).

4. Apparently liquid was present after the BB and it had absolutely no viscosity. This puts paid to my theory that our whole universe is stuck up inside some womb and that the BB was someone berthing the purple love boat.

How can they tell things like temperature over billionths of a second after the big bang? Actually, I assume that info is as a result of that doughnut shaped matter smasher thing?

My mind has been boggled beyond its boggle tolerances and I am now facing the remainder of my life in a permanently dazed state?

[nigelH]

I'm bored too....

1. I can not conceive of the "nothingness" that existed before the big bang.
You have never needed to conceive 'nothing' on that scale so you have no need to. I had a dehydration problem and part of my brain shut down. Everything to my right wasn't there. Not greyed out, not blurred, not hidden. The place formerly known as 'to the right of me' had ceased to exist. So something like that except 'really' not just in my head.

2. Does anyone on YD understand how they reached the Big Bang theory and subsequent theories? Given that I understand about the back ground radiation bit but how can they say that equals the residue of the BB?
You see something is expanding from a point so you reason it's been doing that since some point when it started. It's as good a guess as any. It must have been hot back then so it radiated. It is radiation bouncing about in a finite space so it doppler shifts as it bounces off the walls. We're not going very fast so it is downshifted a long way by the time it gets to us. I quite like the way it proves that the universe is finite but unbounded.

3. How do they think they know this stuff. Are they insane? (THEY = the boffin chaps).
Probably. Modern physics makes Terry Pratchett's Disk world universe seem quite sane and obvious. Sanity has to be replaced by mathematics. I have enough trouble with light going through two slits at once. I can do the sums and make predictions that work but I try not to think about what it really means.

4. Apparently liquid was present after the BB and it had absolutely no viscosity.
Never heard that one. A lot of the modelling of dissociated quarks is a bit fluid like. This predates things like atoms, they don't happen for a quarter of a million years yet. It's only when atoms form that the universe becomes transparent so that's when the background radiation started out.

How can they tell things like temperature over billionths of a second after the big bang?
Just keep counting back as it is smaller and hotter.
It's not the temperature that is important it is matching up the temperature with the time. There are still bugs in the theory here but the trick is to postulate a set of conditions and try to work out what sort of universe you would get further down the line, make predictions and then go see if you're right.

My mind has been boggled beyond its boggle tolerances and I am now facing the remainder of my life in a permanently dazed state?
So no different from normal then. I get superposition of states between the ears considering this stuff and don't get me started on cats in boxes.

[Finless]

So no different from normal then. I get superposition of states between the ears considering this stuff and don't get me started on cats in boxes.

This cat in a box?
Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Thanks for the replies .......... absence of light or awareness (as with your head problem) doesn't mean the absence of space and time. I can conceive of the universe being empty with no matter in it but it is still a space with time. I can conceive of the universe expanding from a single point in time and space (like a balloon being blown up) but only if this universe is in another universe where time and space exists. How can a universe this big be created from a BB which was so tiny. OK, I know of E=MCsquared and I assume E = energy and M = mass and C = constant speed of light so there must have been an inconceivable amount of energy ....................... no, sorry, my brain can't imagine it and therefore I can't comprehend it.

[James The Badger]

I made the mistake of watching it again and trying to understand some of the concepts and I have reached a few conclusions of my own:-

1. I can not conceive of the "nothingness" that existed before the big bang.

Funnily enough the idea of nothing or zero was considered heracy in Europe in the middle ages and I suspect still today, the idea of having 'nothing' was adopted from middle eastern philosophy. Absence of anything had to include the absence of God. If you don't beleive in the BIG FELLA UPSTAIRS (i don't) then you can quite easily have a zero state or singularity. Don't think of a pre big bang, just think of the exact moment prior to expansion existing for an infinitly long time. Unless you want to pretend that the pre expansion universe is God.

2. Does anyone on YD understand how they reached the Big Bang theory and subsequent theories? Given that I understand about the back ground radiation bit but how can they say that equals the residue of the BB?

The big bag theory is the opposite end of the expansion theory. Einstine hated it. The moment of expansion was the only only moment when all the forces in the universe were equall and everywhere (easy in an infinty small space) Think of a balloon that you dip in oil then inflate, the oil is spread evenly over the expanding balloon

3. How do they think they know this stuff. Are they insane? (THEY = the boffin chaps).

Mainly through the observations of the red shift of distant stars


My mind has been boggled beyond its boggle tolerances and I am now facing the remainder of my life in a permanently dazed state?

Just look at the kitten

[nigelH]

This cat in a box?

That's the kitty.

If you're web-searching try for the concept of the universe as a 'false vacuum' - One of the quite serious possibilities of the big-bang theory.
Hence the whole universe might spontaneously cease to exist.

[James The Badger]

This cat in a box?
Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Thanks for the replies .......... absence of light or awareness (as with your head problem) doesn't mean the absence of space and time. I can conceive of the universe being empty with no matter in it but it is still a space with time. I can conceive of the universe expanding from a single point in time and space (like a balloon being blown up) but only if this universe is in another universe where time and space exists. How can a universe this big be created from a BB which was so tiny. OK, I know of E=MCsquared and I assume E = energy and M = mass and C = constant speed of light so there must have been an inconceivable amount of energy ....................... no, sorry, my brain can't imagine it and therefore I can't comprehend it.

The cat was a experiment that shows that the act of observation can effect the result or 'Does the universe look the way it does just because we are looking at it?'

For the other boggle, just think of somthing that can only be seen from the inside. It only goes wobbly (or requires devine intervention) if your universe can be seen from a 3rd party perspective

[Finless]

That's the kitty.

If you're web-searching try for the concept of the universe as a 'false vacuum' - One of the quite serious possibilities of the big-bang theory.
Hence the whole universe might spontaneously cease to exist.

It probably does when we die? This weirdness gives me hope for continued existence after death. After all, we are all made from stardust, as they say? Oh, and water molecules have been in existence for 13 billion years so 70ish% of me is REALLY old?

Read this bit (PHASE III – MIXED - UNCONFINED quark-gluon LIQUID PLASMA [3] ) in here -http://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php?b=14

TBH, I'm not sure if this is the same liquid as was mentioned on TV last night .............. the prog is bound to be repeated because it was on Sky (maybe even tonight).

[Finless]

My head hurts and I'm going home to kill some more brain cells. I sometimes wonder if the process of thought is a curse that humans have to endure? Life would be so much simpler if it was just a case of 'kill or be killed' and 'shag it if it doesn't run away'.

Ho hum.

[adamr]

"don't get me started on cats in boxes."

Its nice to know you don't have to think about it once your degree is over apart from if you teach it of course.

I must admit you've made me wonder about Young and his double slits......

[JonP]

Cripes. Ignorance is bliss methinks...