Yorkshire Divers

Solus Torches
Go Back   YD Scuba Diving Forums > Dive Kit and Equipment > Other Dive Equipment
User Name
Password

Welcome to the YD Scuba forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact support.

Other Dive Equipment: Discuss Kit failures - my observations in the Dive Kit and Equipment forums: This is a post i put on DIRX a while ago. The DSMB debate made me remember about it and ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 05:29 PM
Helen F H's Avatar
Divers below, girls on top....
Recent Blog: Chasing Fish
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Scapa Flow, Orkney
Posts: 9,599
Thanks: 6
Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts
Helen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gills
Kit failures - my observations

This is a post i put on DIRX a while ago. The DSMB debate made me remember about it and put it here too.

Ok, for someone who has dived briefly in a DIR stylee I thought it might be of interest to some of you the kit failures I have seen over the season and the implications these have had for the divers involved. I have just spent my first season working on board a charter vessel in Scapa Flow, Orkney where the German Fleet lie in anything from 18m to 43m. Divers come from all over the world to view these wrecks, and i think i have learned a heck of a lot. Take what you like from this little collection of calamity.

These failures can be divided into two categories - the equipment itself failing or improper use due to insufficient or incorrect training/practice. I have listed both here. Of course there will be many more failures than those listed here, but these are the ones we got to know about or required action on our behalf.


The divers in question are from all over the world, diving every sort of configuration imaginable.


By far the most common failure is a reel during SMB deployment. I count on at least one a week, regardless of the groups experience, make, model, type of reel or SMB. I can virtually guarantee we will have to pick up a stray one at some point.

Now this kind of failure - simply jamming it as it is going up and letting it go is rarely any sort of problem as almost every diver carries an SMB and reel, and a buddy pair can simply use the other persons to try again.


Many of the cheaper SMB’s, which do not seal will lose gas in rough weather and lie low in the water or even sink. The delayed aid model became detached from the line itself after deployment due to part of the plastic snapping. The small ones (around 2 ft tall and filled orally - used by DIR divers) were pretty unsuitable for diving up here where you can get big swells very quickly and divers very spread out if they have differing run times (not a problem if it is an all DIR group as the run times will be very similar making the divers easier to track by the boat). I guess this is one time that size does matter chaps, Scapa Flow is a big chunk of sea.

I managed to get the teardrop from the metal boltsnap on the bottom of the halcyon SMB caught in the elastic strap of my glove while deploying. I was dragged up around 3m before I detached it (this was in Burra sound in a fierce current - a less than perfect deployment by me, but the first in many months!). Twice we have had minor stress when a buddy pair didn’t send up another blob after losing the first deployed and we were in Hoxa sound, close to a shipping lane. Always good fun.


The other kind of problem is a loss of buoyancy control while deploying an SMB, but this is far rarer, having seen only one or two of these and the diver can seldom recall what caused the actual loss of control.


Next on the list is probably buoyancy control. Although this can’t be pinned down to a specific bit of kit, it tends to be one of two things, a BCD/Wing or a drysuit.

By far the most common of the two is air not being dumped sufficiently quick from a drysuit, having seen at least five rapid ascents because of this. Many people will tend to bulk up their undersuits to combat the cold water of Scapa and not realise the implications this has with the ability of air to migrate to the dump valve and escape.

Other problems with drysuits - numerous leaks leaving divers cold and miserable. Neckseals rolling down to create a garrotte at depth. Very poor placement of valves (being too far under the divers arm meaning it was impossible for them to dump any gas in the top portion of the shoulder.). Divers placing equipment straps (in this case a knife) on either side of a cuff dump. Divers being economic with the truth about their drysuit experience.


Loss of weightbelts - I have only seen on the surface and the belt was recovered without issue. Divers being underweighted caused many problems, but all easily rectified providing they had the sense to notice they were struggling to descend and ask for more lead.


Hoses - I have seen one high pressure hose burst at depth, but luckily for the diver it was only at 6m and they ascended without issue. The hose had shown no signs of wear and the burst was within one inch of the end closest to the first stage.


One wing had catastrophic failure due to a very large number of holes (we are talking double figures here, the guy who repaired it questioned if the diver had just dumped his girlfriend…), some right through both sides of the bladder itself. The wing was a bungeed 100lb wing and appeared to be in good condition. On closer inspection some of the holes in the outer bag were noticeable but only when the bungee was stretched out, otherwise they were hidden in the folds of material.

Another failure occurred when the corrugated inflator hose became detached from the inflator assembly resulting in loss of buoyancy at the surface. My own inflator jammed on but this was sorted out by cleaning the inflator after the dive.

At no point did I see a clip or buckle fail. However, some people would forget to clip up the many buckles found on some BCD’s leaving up to three unclipped (I ponder task loading for this one) or really struggle to undo shoulder buckles when de-kitting as the harness had been pulled tight underwater once the diver had descended.


One person lost a mouthpiece from their main reg causing a minor panic and going onto their buddies alternate air source. This was due to the loss of the cable tie from around the rubber section.


Several people ran very low on gas and ascended on their buddies supply.


The neoprene mask slap straps seem to make it easy to lose your mask when entering the water. Maybe something to check on the surface, as they ride up over the neoprene of the hood.


One person was unfortunate enough to flood his rebreather and therefore render it unusable for the rest of the week (is sorted now thank gawd).

One contents gauge leaked so much that it had to be replaced with my own to save the dive.


Two drysuit hoses leaked enough to cause problems, one freeflowing when it was connected to the suit which didn’t cause to much of an issue and was replaced by my own, the other having an uncontrolled freeflow on the boat losing the diver over 50bar of gas.


One diver reported getting line stuck in the spring of a spring strap, but it was one of the kind that has a partially uncovered section of metal spring that will allow for trapping if flexed.


One interesting trend has been that we seem to have had more incidents requiring some sort of action on our behalf near the end of the season than the start. Also all of the DCI incidents we have seen have been skin bends, but then I do know what a skin bend looks like and might be better at spotting them!


One diver missed 4 minutes of stops simply because everyone else’s computers had cleared and he thought he should go up too.


I now know what every single computer on the market looks like when it is bent..... (see tagline).
__________________
Photos Pink Coffin Big Green Boat
So far out of my depth the fish have lights on their noses....
Marmite - You spend your time avoiding yeast infections and then you go and eat one....
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 05:40 PM
Dangerous Dan's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Plymouth, but sometimes back home at Castleford, West Yorks
Posts: 957
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold water
Thanks Helen, Very informative and interesting.

Can I just ask how this happened on the boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen F H
the other (drysuit hose) having an uncontrolled freeflow on the boat losing the diver over 50bar of gas.
Dan
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 05:41 PM
Helen F H's Avatar
Divers below, girls on top....
Recent Blog: Chasing Fish
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Scapa Flow, Orkney
Posts: 9,599
Thanks: 6
Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts
Helen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gills
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous Dan
Thanks Helen, Very informative and interesting.

Can I just ask how this happened on the boat?



Dan
Trying to plug the hose onto the drysuit. It jammed open.
__________________
Photos Pink Coffin Big Green Boat
So far out of my depth the fish have lights on their noses....
Marmite - You spend your time avoiding yeast infections and then you go and eat one....
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 05:43 PM
Dangerous Dan's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Plymouth, but sometimes back home at Castleford, West Yorks
Posts: 957
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold waterDangerous Dan swims in cold water
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen F H
Trying to plug the hose onto the drysuit. It jammed open.
OK maybe should of explained my question more:

50 bar seems a lot, was this from main cylinder or inflation cylinder, why was it not shut down immediately?


Dan
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 05:48 PM
Helen F H's Avatar
Divers below, girls on top....
Recent Blog: Chasing Fish
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Scapa Flow, Orkney
Posts: 9,599
Thanks: 6
Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts
Helen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gillsHelen F H was born with gills
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous Dan
OK maybe should of explained my question more:

50 bar seems a lot, was this from main cylinder or inflation cylinder, why was it not shut down immediately?


Dan
From the main cylinder, he continued to try to connect it and it took me a few seconds to drop what i was doing and leg it over to switch the cylinder off. It probably wasnt that long. Diver Mag did a test a few years ago about how quickly a low pressure hose failure would empty a 12l cylinder and it was something scary (anyone find the link?), so 50bar in that time seems about right.
__________________
Photos Pink Coffin Big Green Boat
So far out of my depth the fish have lights on their noses....
Marmite - You spend your time avoiding yeast infections and then you go and eat one....
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 05:55 PM
triplefin's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: High Wycombe
Posts: 2,635
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
triplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fishtriplefin communes with fish
Useful posting Helen and given the amount of divers/kit and dives it does put things in perspective slightly
__________________
Jane
'A man is only as big as the dreams he dares to live'
My Blog
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 06:26 PM
borgy's Avatar
New Member
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Manchester
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
borgy saw the sea in a book once
sobering stuff Helen. The incident with the high pressure hose makes you realise just how quickly things can go wrong for no apparent reason. What would have happened if that had been deeper? sounds like a lucky escape.

This might sound like a silly question but are all incidents that you are aware of reported to the HSE? I'm not questioning you or your dive operation but just thinking in general. Do all clubs/schools have an obligation to report this kind of stuff to the HSE or is it just the 'hits' or other accidents requiring hospital treatment that come to the HSE's attention?

simon
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 06:33 PM
DIVE BUDDHA's Avatar
H2O SHAKEN NOT STIRED (;-)
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: YORKSHIRE
Posts: 6,389
Thanks: 11
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
DIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gillsDIVE BUDDHA was born with gills
very intresting posting helen and find it very informative and honest !!!

yes i too feel that the high pressure hose going, would have been a real problem

if the diver had needed to do any deco stops to the surface ??

and the diver who came to the surface missing stops because he thought it was

ok as his mates had cleared their computer ??? no idea what he was thinking???
__________________
I.A.N.T.D diver and proud of it !!!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 06:38 PM
Neil Whitworth's Avatar
Lurker
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Derby
Posts: 74
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Neil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm waterNeil Whitworth swims in warm water
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgy
This might sound like a silly question but are all incidents that you are aware of reported to the HSE? I'm not questioning you or your dive operation but just thinking in general. Do all clubs/schools have an obligation to report this kind of stuff to the HSE or is it just the 'hits' or other accidents requiring hospital treatment that come to the HSE's attention?

simon
BSAC maintain a list of incedents. This is compiled from press reports and peoples own submissions. But not everyone fills out an incedent report for everything. The is no obligation to report so this is down to divers doing it off their own back

HSE don't care as this is not an 'at work' situation.

2005 incident report

incident report form

Last edited by Neil Whitworth : 28-12-06 at 06:42 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 28-12-06, 06:38 PM
Scuby's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fleet, Hampshire
Posts: 2,654
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Scuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm waterScuby is a scuba diver - warm water
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgy
This might sound like a silly question but are all incidents that you are aware of reported to the HSE? I'm not questioning you or your dive operation but just thinking in general. Do all clubs/schools have an obligation to report this kind of stuff to the HSE or is it just the 'hits' or other accidents requiring hospital treatment that come to the HSE's attention?
As far as i'm aware HSE don't collect any information like this.

BSAC do however, as the UK governing body, collate them in their annual incident report (which you can find somewhere on bsac.org).

David
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Sponsored Links

Yorkshire Divers - RSS Feed
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:30 AM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Trademark and all rights reserved : © YD.com Ltd (2006)
YD.com Ltd (Registered in England - 05886696)
Other sites : Golf Clubs | New Premiership Football Kits | MP3 Portable Players | MP3 Players For Sale | Replica Football Kits | Cheap Football Boots | Compare MP3 Player Prices | Cheap Christmas Gift Ideas | Cheap Replica Shirt

Forums Directory