Your views on weighting systems?

[Mdemon]

Yup, I tend to agree with you Digger.  

Jetsam, your example doesn't make a lot of sense.  The circumstances would be very unlikely.  It is pretty much irrelevant how much the man or his lead weighs while he's under water, it becomes more so above the surface.  As pointed out, divers have enough weight to get them down - rarely would they dive with a huge excess of weight.  Since "you" (the other diver) are also not likely to be diving excessively overweighted, BOTH of you have spare buoyancy (I think oral inflation's been covered).  So, as a normal diver, I have enough weight to get down and little if any more.  That leaves a spare 25Kg lift in my wing, God knows how much in my DS and of course my DSMB and lift bag.  And that's before we see what the victim is carrying.  Holding a few pounds of head above the water is not going to be that taxing.  Would it be useful to be able to remove the lead?  Sure.  Especially handling the casualty above water.  But not being able to remove it is not a fatal flaw.

I like my lead to stay where I put it.  I think the risks of losing it outweigh the risks of not being able to remove it.  I have redundancy for positive, but most people have no redundancy for negative buoyancy.  If you like a weightbelt then fine.  I think there are better ways of carrying weight.

[darthmoll]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (hideo @ June 28 2003,08:20)]well, that's just stupid, why would you ever need so much weight?  surely if you are weighing yourself down that much then you're just inviting problems.  

i never said it was not stupid, i said i have seen it, and yes it is asking for problems. jetsam is right a person that needs to wear a xs glide 500 or the like would have some job keeping a negativly pos diver on the surface.

mdemon
That leaves a spare 25Kg lift in my wing, God knows how much in my DS and of course my DSMB and lift bag.  And that's before we see what the victim is carrying.  Holding a few pounds of head above the water is not going to be that taxing.  Would it be useful to be able to remove the lead?  Sure.  Especially handling the casualty above water.  But not being able to remove it is not a fatal flaw.

You are not suggesting that you could use your DSMB or lift bag on the surface to help you give support to a diver that is incapable of self rescue, i think i would like to see that, stressed coz they are sinking hanging around while you deploy a lift bag... dont think so, as for it not being a fatal flaw, i would not like to put that to the test in anger.

[Digger]

<font color='#000080'>Yay! Someone agreed with me!

OK, being able to dump a weightbelt is useful on the surface, from the point of view of raising the casualty higher out of the water, but other than that, that's the only advantage I see of ditchable weight. Redundancy is not asking too much. The only divers I see without at least two sources of buoyancy are rekkies, who I could lift easily with my fins alone, let alone the 23kg of wing behind me. A single tank and 14 kg weightblet (the maximum I would consider letting anyone dive with ever!!!) I can lift out of the water for a short period, so I can sure as hell do it underwater.

I don't have a ditchable weightbelt. If you want to lift me, either inflate one of my buoyancy sources, or lift me with one of yours. It's not asking too much, is it? Positive buoyancy can be extremely dangerous for me, and negative buoyancy is not the greatest of problems. I can fix that, and my buddy can too.

[Mdemon]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]You are not suggesting that you could use your DSMB or lift bag on the surface to help you give support to a diver that is incapable of self rescue, i think i would like to see that, stressed coz they are sinking hanging around while you deploy a lift bag... dont think so, as for it not being a fatal flaw, i would not like to put that to the test in anger.

Nope, neither would I. &nbsp;Last ditch stuff. &nbsp;The point is, there are still those options to explore. We can make the scenario more difficult (and unlikely) ad infinitum. (Jetsam's example was with an unconscious casualty)

I also think it is highly unlikely that you couldn't support even a heavily overweighted diver with a wing alone.

[Doug Parker]

<font color='#0000FF'>I knew i'd seen it somewhere. &nbsp;I've just found the PSA course pack that i picked up while at the last dive show and under equipment needed for the advanced deep air levels 2/3/4 is &quot;A BCD with adequate lift to support 2 divers&quot;. &nbsp;What do they (Hal Watts and Mark Andrews) know that we don't ?.

[Jetsam]

Yes an extreme example,but when does life go exactly to plan?I have seen both types of diver on the same boat it happened a couple of weeks ago on a 40m dive (and probably at Stoney if that is your thing) they may be practicing,so you could get a BCD wearer trying to lift somebody that is with twins and stages(notice i did not say it was your buddy just could be) Stoney is well known for poseurs in 300bar twins and stages  that is all they do. I wear twins and stage,but sometimes i wear single and pony if the dive does not need them,i know i have enough lift for myself and others(even in my BCD,it has a huge bladder),and i know others will be able to lift me as my weight is not stuck permanently on(true with a stage it gets trickier).This is what most of you are missing,sure you have enough lift for others........but what if you are the victim?

Mdemon..12kg stuck on(a single cylinder i presume) it would make life uncomfortable for your rescuer if your normal wing wearing buddy was not around,you need to reasses,if you still decide the risk is worth it fine,but i do believe you have not thought it through,don't forget your air may have dumped from your suit,and the rescuer may dump from the wing so you do not ascend to quickly,hence none of your own bouyancy left.And as for the lift bag for bouyancy in a rescue situation......pub talk.

Digger, i think the above would probably apply to you as well 300bar tanks are very negative,if you are on the surface with no air in jacket/wing and none in your lungs(not breathing) then you will be sinking.And no some BCDs do not have a lot of lift,it varies with size and construction.At least you do not have extra weights bolted to you.Remember all this can be in rough weather.

Doug,you say you solo(nothing wrong with that in my opinion),but how can you know your potential rescuer will be able to get you positive in that situation if your weights are in a harness or attached? You do not know who will be doing it(please don't say you always dive with the same group of people,you can get 2 boats on a site)

Hideo...well done on the lift,but i presume it was in a pool/lake enviroment,if your in a Force 5+ swell think about how you are being pushed around (please no one say you should not be diving then,sh*t happens,forecasts are wrong and the weather moves in when you are underwater,its happened to me).You never stop learning either as you say,it may slow down a bit thats all.

The &quot;it will not happen to me&quot; attitude is not helpfull....Sh*t happens.

My buddy will always save me is an entry level mistake.

Most people are still recovered dead from the bottom.

Peter K it was 18kgs lead in a harness(i'm sure you did think that,but i did not make myself clear).

Daz you seem to have weighed up the pros and cons and thought about this more than some others.

If you have to dress the same way to join a gang( as per DIR) fine,but remember inbreeding is a worry in small communitys,and insanity is one of the first signs.

I feel i must put in a smiley face... ....there. Oh and thanks Darth for the backup you know where i am coming from.

Definately nuff said.Oh except my weightbelt stays on no problems,must be my shape.

[Gavin Yates]

<font color='#000F22'>Jetsam - on your profile it says you're from Kent - or is that just a spelling mistake?

[darthmoll]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Mdemon @ June 29 2003,15:57)]We can make the scenario more difficult (and unlikely) ad infinitum. (Jetsam's example was with an unconscious casualty)

I also think it is highly unlikely that you couldn't support even a heavily overweighted diver with a wing alone.

Yes that was what I understood; we do not have to make it more difficult, shit happens, normally when we are least prepared.

You may be able to support a heavily overweighed diver with a wing, but I think it would not necessarily be in a way that would prolong life in any meaningful way. Try it

[Doug Parker]

<font color='#0000FF'>The only reason i would need rescuing is oxtox, and then i'm bollocksed anyway so rescue isn't an option, it's a body recovery by my mates because the police don't go deep enough. I do only dive with the same group of people and the chances of their being another boat on the site are minimal. Any other time, i use standard kit that anyone who has been in the water a dozen times should be able to figure out.

[Mdemon]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Jetsam - on your profile it says you're from Kent - or is that just a spelling mistake?

LOL!

Dive how you want Jetsam, and best of luck to you.