Bardo and Boris sitting in a tree... ;)

[onthetrain]

Originally Posted by Janos

Sadly you still need the stage regs and bottles for bailout if you're CCR.

Janos

Yes, true, I dont think it invalidates the argument however.

[Janos]

Originally Posted by onthetrain

Yes, true, I dont think it invalidates the argument however.

You know me, I'm not the argumentative sort
But I think it does

Breaking it down a bit further. All this is needed for the twinset stuff:

Halcyon Evolve system from GUE Explorers = £390
Scubapro twinset regs from Underwater explorers = £660
2 X heiser twinsets from Knackers = 2 X £383
Subtotal: £1816

Whereas this is needed on CCR anyway:

Subapro stage regs from Underwater explorers = 3 X £369
2 X Ali 80 from Knackers = 2 X £160
1 x ali 40 from Knackers = £130
3 x dirzone stage rigging kits from Knackers = 3 X £30
Sub total: £1647

Plus you're comparing new for old. A new CCR is £5k.

To me, capital costs don't really come into it. The resale value of most of the kit means you wouldn't make too much of a loss if you bought it secondhand. The main difference in costs is the running costs.

But I don't dive CCR for financial reasons. The reason I dive it is that I believe it's safer for 30m+

However I must confess to be being surprised that THIS THREAD yet. [1]

Janos

[1] - Don't worry. She's en route to Florida so I don't think she can hit me

[Al_Star]

Originally Posted by Janos

You know me, I'm not the argumentative sort
But I think it does

.....

Plus you're comparing new for old. A new CCR is £5k.

Couldn't have said it better if I'd tried I'd also add that it seems rare to go from single tank to CCR. Most people seem to already have been twinset diving before moving over so it's not like they haven't already got one.

Originally Posted by Janos

However I must confess to be being surprised that THIS THREAD yet. [1]

Kit requirements actually became a lot easier than I'd anticipated thanks to Deep Blue down in Plymouth. They made the logisitics of gas fills relatively straightforward. At one point we were considering turning up to the week with all the trimix done so we didn't end up filling all night but the kit needed was just nuts even using ideas like decanting hot mixes. It's also a damn site easier only doing one mix dive a day - the trouble with dealing with a limited timeframe meant we needed to get more than one mix dive done in the same day.

Cheers
Al

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Janos

You know me, I'm not the argumentative sort
But I think it does

Breaking it down a bit further. All this is needed for the twinset stuff:

Halcyon Evolve system from GUE Explorers = £390
Scubapro twinset regs from Underwater explorers = £660
2 X heiser twinsets from Knackers = 2 X £383
Subtotal: £1816

Whereas this is needed on CCR anyway:

Subapro stage regs from Underwater explorers = 3 X £369
2 X Ali 80 from Knackers = 2 X £160
1 x ali 40 from Knackers = £130
3 x dirzone stage rigging kits from Knackers = 3 X £30
Sub total: £1647

Plus you're comparing new for old. A new CCR is £5k.

To me, capital costs don't really come into it. The resale value of most of the kit means you wouldn't make too much of a loss if you bought it secondhand. The main difference in costs is the running costs.

But I don't dive CCR for financial reasons. The reason I dive it is that I believe it's safer for 30m+

However I must confess to be being surprised that THIS THREAD yet. [1]

Janos

[1] - Don't worry. She's en route to Florida so I don't think she can hit me

I on the other hand AM the argumentative sort

Soo lets get the facts right.


40lb Halcyon Evolve system from GUE Explorers = £390
55lb Halcyon Wing for twin 18s from GUE Explorers = £250?
Scubapro twinset regs from Underwater explorers = £660
Subapro stage regs from Underwater explorers = 3 X £369
2 X twin 12 heiser twinsets from Knackers = 2 X £383
2 X twin 18s twin sets from Knackers = 2 X £400+
4 X Ali 80 deco stages @ £150 each = £600
2 X Ali 40 deco stages @ £120 each = £240

Subtotal: £ 4867.00

DIRF 500??
Tech1 1000??
Tech2 1500??


Total: £7867.00


Whereas this is needed on CCR anyway:

Inspo Classic CCR £4500
Subapro stage regs from Underwater explorers = 3 X £369
2 X Ali 80 from Knackers = 2 X £160
1 x ali 40 from Knackers = £130
3 x dirzone stage rigging kits from Knackers = 3 X £30

Mod1 CCR 500
Mod2 CCR 800
Mod3 CCR 1100


So CCR = £8547.00

OC = £7867.00


Activ trimix diver doing 50 dives a year on 18/45 and 15/55

Bassed on amazingly cheep prices at portland and top offs lets say an AMAZINGLY generous £75 per dive

CCR diver bassed on expensive local prices in Kent £18 per dive

Saving on CCR per year bassed on 50dives over 40m per year £3050.00 a year


THATS £3500 A YEAR



Sooooooo are we clear now


This is what it looked like doing my trimix diving on OC. Dispite the two sets of 12s and the two sets of 15's, four 10ltr stages 4 7ltr stages and two 3ltr bottles we also regularly borrowed each others twin sets because we didnt have the right mix in our own. I also regularly had to bloww of entire twinsets of trimix because they were the wrong mix



ATB

Mark Chase

[RichClark]

I recognise the twin 15's at the end.... It now stores my Dil and O2 for decanting

[tom]

Apparently if you really want to save money, Deep Air is the way to go

[Janos]

Originally Posted by tom

Apparently if you really want to save money, Deep Air is the way to go

Aha. Finally a voice of sanity in this thread

Janos

[Spike Jackson]

Originally Posted by tom

Apparently if you really want to save money, Deep Air is the way to go

Yes, on a single tank so that's only one reg. And if you do it solo you don't need one of them pricey octo thingys for your buddy either.

[SoggyFox]

the argument about kit and requirements is rather pedantic, as many of us before moving onto CCR or OC trimix will of already amassed a certain amount of equipment which is easily converted, ie numerous sets of 1st and 2nd stages and bottles etc.

so for clarity sake, it would be better to take a standard set of kit parameters and then work from there, ie what would your average sports diver have in their cupboard to use to go diving regularly. Then begin to argue the extra's that are required for either OC/CCR trimix diving.

i already had most of the bits of kit i needed for MOD1 CCR diving (stage and regs and wing etc) so the major outlay was only the KISS and the course.

[Al_Star]

I'm almost at the point of giving up but in the interest of disagreeing with Chasey

I haven't bought twin 18's
I bought Apeks regs - DS4's £80 a pop
I bought scubapro R380 2nd stages £80 each
I only need one wing as for ocean dives I'd add a bottom stage rather than 18's
I only bought 2 bottom stages not 4
I only need one AL40 and one 7L for deco gases

Given most people are already tech diving or at least with a twinset you can't easily just say that they won't have already got some of the gear as well. On that basis your kit costs are way way off - but lets play along.

40lb Halcyon Evolve system from GUE Explorers = £390
twinset regs = £400
stage regs = 3 X £200 = £600
2 X twin 12 heiser twinsets from Knackers = 2 X £383 = £766
2 X Ali 80 deco stages @ £150 each = £300
1 X Ali 40 deco stages @ £120 each = £120
1 x Ali 7 deco stage @ £122 each = £122

Subtotal: £ 2698

DIRF 500??
Tech1 1000??
Tech2 1500??

Total: £5698

You missed out needing nitrox and advanced nitrox to do mod1 - which is covered by T1.

Inspo Classic CCR £4500
stage regs (amended to match what I'd pay) = 3 X £200
2 X Ali 80 from Knackers = 2 X £160
1 x ali 40 from Knackers = £130
3 x dirzone stage rigging kits from Knackers = 3 X £30

Nitrox £130
Advanced Nitrox £200
Mod1 CCR 500
Mod2 CCR 800
Mod3 CCR 1100


So CCR = £8370

OC = £5698

As for 50 gas dives a year - well you only managed 21. So assuming 21 per year at a difference of £32 per dive (as per my previous calculation i.e. 18/45 dives down to 66m). You have a £672 difference a year on gas. Change some of them into 15/55 and then yes the costs for gas get higher. So lets say £900 more on gas in a year.

So worst case it will take 3 years for you to earn the money back. If however you already owned a single twinset setup and no stages then you spend £1173 less on kit which makes it over 4 years for you to cover the added cost.

If that's an ok timescale with you great.

To anyone else reading this thread - the short answer is tech diving if chuffing expensive whatever you do. I spend a vast amount of diving per year - but its what I go to work for. If you want to save money stick to 30m stuff with a single tank