Usual YD Rules - What’s Reasonable?

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by Steve S

That deserves a red it was a revelation to see the Dud that quiet and attentive wasn't it?

Safe diving,
Steve

I actually wondered whether the Dude had turned H4x0r and got into Jules' login

[Ian@1904]

Originally Posted by JasonP

Non returnable deposit even if the place is subsequently filled?

Even I am not that harsh. I am sure that if B takes A's place then B sends a deposit to A. A confirms receipt to B and trip organiser. Job sorted.

[JasonP]

Originally Posted by Ian@1904

Even I am not that harsh. I am sure that if B takes A's place then B sends a deposit to A. A confirms receipt to B and trip organiser. Job sorted.

It would seem to me that if you didn't return a deposit for a place subsequently filled, you could be construed as doing it for a profit and all the crap that entails.

Jason

[Steve Jones]

I may have missed some of the subtle points that may have been made. However here is my point of view.

I organise maybe 12 trips per year, most of my trips are with known mates, and also with skippers who trust me. This means the skippers don't ask me for deposits, and I don't ask people for deposits unless I have never met them before.

I try to make it clear to people who book on my trips that if you shaft me then you will never be on one of my trips ever again. If you put your name down then you are liable for the full cost of a place on that trip if you pull out. I will even go so far (it has never been necessary yet) as to say that I will blacken that person's name on every dive group that I have dived with.

The deposit issue may change next year as I am starting up a group comprised of individuals from various other groups. So I am thinking about getting some cash in. Anyone will be welcome on these dives however.

Steve

[Ian@1904]

Originally Posted by Steve Jones

II organise maybe 12 trips per year, most of my trips are with known mates, and also with skippers who trust me. This means the skippers don't ask me for deposits, and I don't ask people for deposits unless I have never met them before.

I consistently ask for a deposit even from friends I have known for years and who's credit rating and words are beyond reproach.
Doing this tends to make people put dates in their diary. I sometimes have cancellations from divers who suddenly discover they are off to Truk Lagoon or Cornwall........

[Steve S]

Originally Posted by Bantam

I actually wondered whether the Dud had turned H4x0r and got into Jules' login

Just corrected a little mistake for you mate.....he doesn't like the E

Safe diving,
Steve

[Mark Davies]

Sometimes these things are easier said than done, especially on the most expensive trips which carry the highest risk for the organiser.

For instance, I put my name down for a week long Scapa trip only to find the organiser pulled out of it! I then found I had to take over the trip if I wanted to save my summer holiday. A number of other people pulled out and then we found ourselves struggling to keep the trip alive. The cost of the trip was the best part of £300 each and anyone who has ever organised a trip knows just how difficult it is to get that kind of money out of people in one go. In order to get enough people to sign up for the trip and keep it going I simply wasn't in a position to demand the full sum and could only ask for deposits.

You're left taking a risk - and now with just over a month to go two people have pulled out. I'd hope they will pay for their spots if they can't be filled, but the threat of 'naming-and-shaming' is far from any guarantee of payment and I could easily be left £450 out of pocket. The fact that someone may no longer be welcome on future trips hardly gets you your money!

I've organised quite a few trips over the years and so far have suffered no losses - YD is in general a very good bunch. However, there are many trips being posted and despite the increasing membership it's actually getting harder to fill trips and at times in order to fill your boat you are accepting people on a trip that you don't know from Adam - so you are taking a financial risk. As YD gets bigger and bigger this becomes an increasing problem. YD thrives and survives on the fact that we dive together and know each other and simply wouldn't be the place it is if we didn't organise trips, but with the risks increasing are people simply going to stop doing it?

I've often wondered whether there was scope for the site to offer some form of 'insurance' for people organising trips through the site to cover them for the no-shows.

[pieater]

It's probably not something Jay wants to get into, but I have been wondering for a while about incorporating YD in some way. This would enable "brand YD" to enter into contracts, with (for example) skippers etc. to run gigs.

Issues, would be tax, the hassle and the risk.

The tax we could get round by becoming a charity, and using either the registration route or the new Charitable Incorporated Organisations.

The risk and the grief would remain, which probably kills it dead.

[Mick F]

Originally Posted by pieater

It's probably not something Jay wants to get into, but I have been wondering for a while about incorporating YD in some way. This would enable "brand YD" to enter into contracts, with (for example) skippers etc. to run gigs.

Issues, would be tax, the hassle and the risk.

The tax we could get round by becoming a charity, and using either the registration route or the new Charitable Incorporated Organisations.

The risk and the grief would remain, which probably kills it dead.

I'm pretty sure that YD is already a limited company, but I reckon there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of Jay wanting to get involved in anything like trip booking. Can you imagine the shitstorm he would be letting himself in for when things would eventually go wrong on a trip.

I'm not trying to speak for him, but if I were in his shoes there's no flaming way I'd want the hassle.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure he posted some rules a couple of years ago that all "YD" trips were the responsibility of the organisers, and YD would in no way be responsible.

[Mark Davies]

The suggestion isn't that YD become responsible for the trips, but that - as a business venture - they could provide insurance to cover the eventuality of unpaid trip fees. Each trip organiser would pay a premium for the cover (if they wanted it) and know they are then covered if people don't pay up.

Of course there would have to be the usual insurance stipulations (a set of rules to comply with when organising the trip) to ensure it doesn't get abused, but I think there's potential for YD to make some money out of it. And a useful service for the members.

Anybody in the insurance business who could advise whether it's a viable suggestion?