CE Marking and value for money

[divetheworld]

Following on from the very contentious CE thread, I would like to hear your opinion as to whether you think dive goods manufacturers or sellers take advantage of you.

Do you think that rebreather divers are seen as a "cash cow" and over charged on a regular basis 'because they can' or do you think that you get value for money and the goods and services you recieve are competatively and fairly priced?

Here is your oppotunity to voice your opinion to the dive industry. Especially in a niche market where you have little scope for finding alternatives.

Wonder if this could be sticky?

[dry suit diver]

I am not a CCR diver but reading about initial start up charges and costs of running then yes, but its like all things you enjoy, it always costs you more than you like.

[schford]

You know - not sure if this is the thread for it....but have had a few beers so what the hell.....

I think we live in a bloody nanny state courtesy of Europe and the bloody CE mark actually causes anti competative behaviour - I think we get ripped off not in the prices we get charged but the way we are forced to buy only approved devices....

Someone else said that RB manufacturers survive in the most litigous country in the world and they do, if there was a problem with em then they would be sued out of business - hey isnt that called a free market? So why the hell are we forced to buy devices that are manufacture in the EU - you have noticed that the only CE approved rebreathers are manufactured in the EU right! Not that I'm infurring ;-) anything - ye right! EU Anti Competative - *coughs*

PS my excuse for the rant is that the thread is titled CE MArking ;-)

[Fathoms Down]

I find myself wondering if the CE testing is being used as a bit of a scape goat here. Yes, rebreather users are early adopters and as such are going to find themselves paying a premium to cover the cost of the companies R&D, increased liability costs, etc. but remember that manufacturers also need to make a profit as well (they aren't charities). However, if you wanted to justify the amount of money you are making per unit isn't blaming regulation an easy (and convenient) way to cover up the profits you are making?

I'm not saying that anyone is doing this but it seems odd that the CE testing is getting a slating when most RBs, whether they are CE marked or not, seem to cost about the same.

[NotDeadYet]

I have absolutely no problem with people making money. My argument against the regs is that they are overly descriptive of one rebreather making it difficult for others to comply or impossible without completely changing it's whole concept (like the KISS and the new EDO-8). I'm not even entirely sure how relevant the regs are. Bail-out is the absolute key to surviving a rebreather dive and yet this is not addressed.

[BJ]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

Bail-out is the absolute key to surviving a rebreather dive and yet this is not addressed.

oooohhhhh!!!!! As Big Mike said, that's like trailing a horse behind your car in case the car breaks down!

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by JB

oooohhhhh!!!!! As Big Mike said, that's like trailing a horse behind your car in case the car breaks down!

I do like analogies - they're just like gold bars.

A car breaking down does not usually lead to a life threatening situation. I realise it can be argued that this could be the same on a RB. However can you wait for someone to come along and fix it like the AA?

Adrian

[Skeletor]

As Big Mike said, that's like trailing a horse behind your car in case the car breaks down!

And I suppose he doesn't have home insurance because his house is never going to burn down either.

[BJ]

Originally Posted by Skeletor

And I suppose he doesn't have home insurance because his house is never going to burn down either.

If I thought rebreathers were that dangerous I would never use one. But then swimming underwater with or without any life-support equipment is pretty dangerous.
The first time I had one, back in 1993, I tried using a rebreather without the O2 turned on. I was sitting on a hotel bed in Nama Bay at the time. I went out like a light and woke up (thankfully) later with an almighty head-ache. I certainly never had time to bail out on open circuit.
So my view is, if you need the bail-out, it's too late.
If you are going to take sufficient OC gas supply with you for bail-out, why not just breathe it and save the hassle with CCR?

Of course I do not advocate that anyone should put their lives at risk by the use of any scuba equipment whatsoever.

[Janos]

Originally Posted by JB

So my view is, if you need the bail-out, it's too late.

But there are some failure modes which do give you sufficient warning to bail out on. Just because one failure doesn't give you time it doesn't mean that you shouldn't bother. To use your car analogy, there's no point in wearing a seatbelt, as someone once died by driving their car off a cliff and a seatbelt did no good for them whatsoever.

Originally Posted by JB

If you are going to take sufficient OC gas supply with you for bail-out, why not just breathe it and save the hassle with CCR?

You're ignoring the gas you need for your bottom time. And on OC you take more than you need because you plan for OC gas failure.

Originally Posted by JB

Of course I do not advocate that anyone should put their lives at risk by the use of any scuba equipment whatsoever.

That reminds me of the South Park disclaimer - this programme should never be viewed by anyone ever!

Laters,
Janos