Why always TDI CCR?

[john barlow]

All my tec courses from advanced Nitrox to CCR trimix have been with IANTD.
Particularly impressed with the 'Tek Closed Circuit Rebreather' manual obtainable from www.iantd.com Another thing IANTD will give credit for past diving history, meaning no need to complete 50 hours on your unit to be certified to use helium for example.

[Mark Chase]

I have to say if I had known more about IANTD before i took the TDI course I think i would have gone for that one. Maby i am wrong but there seems to be a bias toward the TDI course from the available instructors on the APD approved list??

I also would say I was very happy with the TDI Mod1 course but I felt the lack of proper structure with manuals and exam papers for Mod 3 was very poor.
I was also disappointed not to be allowed to officially dive normoxic trimix during the 100 hours required for Mod1 to Mod3 upgrade.

50 hours is more realistic as an upgrade period for previously trimix qualified divers IMHO but I know Ill get flack for saying that

ATB

Mark Chase

[Reikimaster]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

but I know Ill get flack for saying that

you get flack? there is first time for everything i suppose!

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by john barlow

Why always TDI CCR?

I did TDI mod 1 and IANTD mod 2. Both good courses with wide content and instructors I respect.

[Chris Lewis]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I was also disappointed not to be allowed to officially dive normoxic trimix during the 100 hours required for Mod1 to Mod3 upgrade.

Mark Chase

Being a complete newb to all thing underwater the term 'normoxic trimix' got me wondering what it meant. A google for 'what is trimix' gave me this result http://www.phoenix5.org/glossary/trimix.html

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Chris Lewis

Being a complete newb to all thing underwater the term 'normoxic trimix' got me wondering what it meant. A google for 'what is trimix' gave me this result http://www.phoenix5.org/glossary/trimix.html

Yeah this one pops up every now and then. It just goes to show the deep Air boy's are right and Trimix is for knobs

Normoxic trimix is any mix with over 16% 02 content. This can be breathed on the surface. Dropping much below 16% 02 and you will pass out due to lack of oxygen this is called going hypoxic.

Obviously Normoxic trimix is safer to use than Hypoxic trimix as you don't have to use a travel gas (a gas to get you from the surface to a suitable gas switch depth) on the way down and accidentally having the wrong reg in your mouth on the surface / very shallow wont result in you passing out.

ATB

Mark Chase

[DALESDIVER]

As of London show early this year, IANTD also require you the diver to do 100 hours, the same as everybody else before progressing on to use trimix in the unit. This was seen as a step forward to bring all the agencies in to line and make sure people had the necessary skills on the unit before progessing deeper and getting into bother.

Before all the arguments start about previous experience, as a new rebreather diver you are exactly that " A NEW DIVER", you have zero experience on sorting out the problems that may occur, also you have to have the o/c thinking process removed because ccr is inherantly different in the way you dive/react in case of a problem, unless you are going to carry twin 20's as bailout every dive you do on mix...........

So be it IANTD, PSAI, or TDI or ITDA, it's 100 hours of getting used to the unit before legally gas diving the unit, one thing worth remembering is that unless it says trimix qualified and the depth you are planning to dive to is on your ticket, you are NOT INSURED in the case of an accident, think about who is going to pay the mortage off for the family when you smuggly thought "It wont happen to me" and then the insurance company does the usual "Diving outside qualifications, ever so sorry, goodbye"
So get the training even if you think you are above what we the lowly dive instructors can teach you, it means peace of mind for your family at worst, or that your dive insurer gets you unbent when you did it wrong.....

This is not a rant, it's just what we see every week in the "british diving public", you are not above the law, use some common sense, be a resposible diver, to yourself, your family, friends, and the rest of the diving community.
This is not aimed at anyone in particular just thought it was a good place to put it, as the agencies question and hours etc had been raised.

As well as being a PSAI instructor trainer examiner, I am a current IANTD Instructor and am qualified as, (but not a current member) TDI Instructor trainer. and an ITDA Technical course director, and PADI and BSAC Instructor as well, so I see all sides of different agencies policys on what they are doing etc.

[Mr. D]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

50 hours is more realistic as an upgrade period for previously trimix qualified divers IMHO but I know Ill get flack for saying that

I NEED ARTILLERY AT THIS POSITION.....

I've got TDI CCR Mod1 over xmas. Can't wait. Doing it in cooooold waters though.... yikes.

[Mark Chase]

Before all the arguments start about previous experience, as a new rebreather diver you are exactly that " A NEW DIVER", you have zero experience on sorting out the problems that may occur, also you have to have the o/c thinking process removed because ccr is inherantly different in the way you dive/react in case of a problem, unless you are going to carry twin 20's as bailout every dive you do on mix...........

Totally agree on the life insurance thing but I reckon the bastards will try to wiggle out in other ways once they find out what I dive and how I dive it. I did full trimix OC and Mod3 to get life insurance cover and to be able to get the gas I wanted anywhere.


Only problem with the 100 hours thing is when nothing goes wrong. I haven't worked out my hours recently but I am a long way past 100 and so far I have had one cell error at about 12m on deco.

Thats it.

So my progression in managing failures has been bugger all. Some interesting mistakes in the first couple of months of diving but after that nothing. Its scary because you start to relax.

Maby its because I was always on trimix in the UK from day 1 so I wasn't narked stupid when minor issues occurred and they didn't turn into major ones

The plain fact is you build up experience at depth OC and CCR and the mental stress of being at depth becomes a small problem. In short your not scared any more. Fear breeds panic, panic kills divers more than any other thing. Divers new to diving the CCR and new to deep diving on mix past 50m are far more likely to have a confusion or stress related incident than an diver new to CCR but experienced at depth and with trimix.

Still waiting for the unit to bite me but following recent deaths on CCR I now realize I could be one of the best CCR divers in the world and still be just as dead when it happens.

ATB

Mark Chase

[James28]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

Only problem with the 100 hours thing is when nothing goes wrong. I haven't worked out my hours recently but I am a long way past 100 and so far I have had one cell error at about 12m on deco.

Thats it.

I think half of it is that when you've done a load of hours, you know instinctively where all your buttons are & how your unit should be operating in terms of your metabolic rate, O2 injection, etc. All time spent on your unit is good. As soon as I started diving the 30 - 40m range I put trimix in my unit as it is safer. Going to Normoix trimix and enabling you to dive to 60 - 65m after only 50 hours seems a bit quick to me. It's only in hindsight that you start to realise why training againcies specify a 100 hours.
Also by 100 hours you'll have your configuration sorted by that point and hopefully have a few problems to overcome in that period.

I've seen someone have a low O2 warning at 55m, not having been on a unit for very long & having to bail out to OC as he managed to spike the O2 by feeding in too much O2 & then couldn't find the dil button to flush!!!

Bit academic now as you've done your 100 hours & got your mod3 now Mark. I can't really talk as I was doing 60m dives after 24hours on the unit, only looking back now I realise I was pushing it way to much!

James.