OK YD RBers Info Required

[Simon TW]

Hi to all of you RB users.

I have been trying to think up a good reason why I should need a RB.

I have read loads, on here and elsewhere and it seems that not only do I have to think up a need for one next I have to decide on which one.

I've been diving with a guy in the last couple of days who is a German Militery Diver, Mine Clearence in the Baltic every day! 2 mtr viz removing all the mines that they put down in WW2. He Dives a MegX ( English wasn't that good but I think that's what he said, made in Scotland)

Now I firmly beleive that diving is progressing and the RB will be more common in the next few years so why wait. However, I am only at the stage of diving a single 15 with a Pony and have not progressed on to twins or Trimix. I have a nitrox card though I have only ever dived on air.

I want to progress to deeper diving but not every day just on occaisions.I have been favoring the YBOD and was waiting for the one with new electronics but need some very impartial advice on this subject.

1 Should I even go there now (skipping the twins)

2 What do you see as the main advantages to you.

3 What are the main disadvantages.

4 Which RB (now I know that everyone allways wants to say which they have and I am also aware that no-one would want to admit to getting the wrong one) assuming that you had just won a RB of your choice ticket.

I am looking for advice and don't mind honesty If you think that I may not be ready or have other options or opinions then I am all ears.

Thanks for reading.

[Jules]

I've recently become very enamoured of the KISS RB and although finding the money for the unit is the big issue for me, I'm "selling it" to myself on several "safety" aspects which as a "mature" diver may probably be relevant for you to Simon:

1) constant high ppO2 reduces physiological stress
2) depending on the unit, very lightweight (the KISS Sport RB anyways)
in comparison to a twinset, therefore reduced physical and physiological stress again
3) ease of use, you could use the rug for a whole day's diving without worrying about fills and changing the scrubber
4) will reduce gas costs over a long period, especially if you're wanting to dive high % nitrox regularly (ok so Sofnalime ain't free either but...)

With so many divers bowing out on a heart attack, I think reducing physical stress levels can only be a beneficial move for anyone in the "mature" bracket - at least if I cark it while working down at the gym I won't go undiscovered or become crab food

Steve (oops! on Jules's log in)

[Drmike]

Personally (and this is only my opinion) I don't think anyone should be diving an RB unless they really need one. If the dive can be safely carried out on OC why add the complexity and additional risk.

Let me quantify what I mean by that, I think Rbs are of great benefit -

- If in an overhead environment or doing dives with large deco obligations where gas loss, getting stuck, getting lost, doing a free floating deco, depth etc make the benefits of the gas extension RBs give you outweigh the risks that come from RBs.

- If diving in a place where not ascending on the downline is not an option (strong currents, sea conditions, remoteness, no chase boat etc) and the ability to have the gas extension to spend extra time finding the line

- If doing deep diving or extended range diving where staging OC adds too much risk and complexity

- If photography is your thing

- If the minimal use of helium makes more people use trimix

- Where deco obligations need to be minimsed

I see no need for a RB if only diving reef or shallow wreck with no penetration.

However you wouldn't catch me doing a deep wreck penetration or cave diive without an RB on my back as mine has saved my ass on many occasions.

This is just my opinion many do not agree - thats fine.

[angleseydiver]

Originally Posted by Drmike

Personally (and this is only my opinion) I don't think anyone should be diving an RB unless they really need one. If the dive can be safely carried out on OC why add the complexity and additional risk.


I see no need for a RB if only diving reef or shallow wreck with no penetration.

So RBs are only for members of the "Big-Balls Club" are they? So where, exactly, did you learn to use your CCR? Or are your balls so big you just strapped it on and got on with the deep/risky/tech/trimix/deco/penetration dives you were doing before?


Simon,
I say, skip the twins- you've got the Nitrox ticket so you're OK to go the RB route. I've only experience of YBOD- I'm happy with it. Do plenty of REEF and SHALLOW WRECK diving for a couple of seasons while you learn to use it- and then, maybe, you can think about some DEEP PENETRATION!

[Simon TW]

I won't quote if you arn't logged in as you Steve, however I am at a tender young age of 44 and although confess to being a tad overweight I am physically fit. Well apart from artheritis in both knees but the old ticker is tip top and at present I dive a 15 ltr steel + pony and its not to taxing.

The Kiss gives a constant O2 if I am correct and you need to give it a pip on occaisions to increase the O2 also If I'm correct the Kiss you still have to get the wing, backplate and some other stuff which make it as expensive as the YDOB.

It's not that I need one for the type of diving that I do now, it's that i want to progress into more deeper and longer dives.

DrMike your suggestion is that I may not require one cos of the overhead enviroment and wreck penetration. Allthough this is not on the agenda I still need to progress are yoy suggesting that instead of RB go twins on OC.

I have a trydive tomorrow on a Drager so I will let you know how I get on.

Does anyone have any info on the one made in Scotland?

[Rob Evans]

The one made in Scotland is - I believe - a dead spiffy mil-spec one that us trogs can't buy and even if we did it's around the £30k mark.

DrMike does have a point - I don't know exactly what you've got planned for your diving career, but going CCR is a big step. You have to know it's what you want, I've seen plenty of boxes sold on cos their owners couldn't justify having one sat in the garage not doing a lot that couldn't be done on OC. The cost of a YBOD + training, for instance, does amount to a LOT of boat dives.
If you're looking at gas diving or spending ferking ages (and I mean FERKIN AGES) on your favourite 30m wreck, then go ahead - fill your boots .
It's not an elitism thing, but nowadays I'm wary of pointing dead keen types straight at CCR just cos I rate it. It's tough enough getting onto it, tougher still to let one go cos the diving you're doing doesn't justify the outlay, when a decent 12l twinset may very well have sufficed.

[Drmike]

Originally Posted by angleseydiver

So RBs are only for members of the "Big-Balls Club" are they? So where, exactly, did you learn to use your CCR? Or are your balls so big you just strapped it on and got on with the deep/risky/tech/trimix/deco/penetration dives you were doing before?

Ah...thats nice, thanks a lot

No thats not what I said at all.

You missed the whole point I was making, Ill reword it simpler so you can understand -

Diving rebreathers brings a whole additional level of complexity and risks to a dive. In MY OPINION if the type of diving you are doing is deep/overhead etc then the gas extension the RB gives you is worth the added risk. I PERSONALLY think that's where a RB should be used. If you are only EVER doing shallow non penetration dives then I PERSONALLY feel a RB is an added risk and not the best tool for the job.

Of course if you INTEND to end up doing deeper riskier dives then you have to start off training for them on the RB - and in this case an RB is fine to get and build up experience on - I never said it wasn't. I said in my opinion if you are only EVER doing shallow non risk dives then I didn't think and RB was the right tool.

I stated that this is just my opinion if you don't like it fine I think last time I checked I was entitled to have one. I really don't see the need for you to be rude. Up to know I was quite impressed with this forum.

[Drmike]

Originally Posted by Simon TW

It's not that I need one for the type of diving that I do now, it's that i want to progress into more deeper and longer dives.

DrMike your suggestion is that I may not require one cos of the overhead enviroment and wreck penetration. Allthough this is not on the agenda I still need to progress are yoy suggesting that instead of RB go twins on OC.

Hi Simon,

My suggestion is take a good honest look at what sort of diving you intend to end up doing. Then ask yourself if the added safety of having that gas extension outweighs the additional risk, cost and hassle of using an RB. If the answer is yes then get one as soon as possible and build up all your experience on it from the earliest stage.

But this is just my opinion (I'm not asking anyone to agree - but Id prefer it if my balls or any other part of my anatomy was kept out of it)

Cheers
Mike

[Pierre Farrugia]

Hello,

I think the point in buying a RB is either do I REALLY need one or I just want to buy a RB because Ilike the idea and technology? Both can be a good idea if you think you are, and what people are trying to say is to be honest of the cause you are buying it so after you don't regret it! At the end it's you who will dive it, if you buy it for 20m dives and you are happy after cleaning it and taking care of it and you go to sleep happy, then you did the right thing!

I ordered mine 2 weeks ago because I di many 60m dives but also 30m dives of which will no be done by th unit! Yersterday we did a 60m dive using twin 12's and buddy twin 15's, plan was 25min, on 20min bottom time due to current he signalled that he has 55bar!!! We ahve been diving to this depth all summer never came out of the water with less than 80 - 90bar!! If it was with a RB there would not be the problem! Also I would dive trimix even 2 times a week and at the moment once a month is expensive. Also I felt some degree of narcosis, so trimix is the way foward! So now I will ahve to do a whole year doing shallow stuuf to build up and hopefully next year, I can start using trimix on the unit!

[angleseydiver]

Given that Simon said in his initial post:

I want to progress to deeper diving but not every day just on occaisions.

Then your post(s) reads as I suggest, given that I'm of simple mind-

You say that RBs are more risky and complex on the one hand but less risky for the deeper stuff-where STW is hoping to go.

The RB currently on the market are tools for Recreational Diving so no one

really needs one

It's a question of getting the right tool for the job and IMHO the RB is a single piece of kit that, once mastered, will allow
you to go where you will.

ATB,

Terry