The 'Switching to a Rebreather' Debate.

[nitrox]

<font color='#0000FF'>i tend to find the only people that rave about the inspiration are the one's that own them or desire to.

personally with its given mortality rate (whatever the argument) i wouldnt have one in my garage.

whenever the RB community suffers a fatality due to the inspiration, it amazes me that the unit never seems to be at fault. the words :denial, ministry of defence and deepcut spring to mind if you get my drift.

personally my advice to any budding rebreather user is buy yourself a draeger dolphin.

all the yellow coffin wearers will disagree banging on about being gas and depth restricted due to your mix blah blah blah.

all i can say to that is....

the dolphin is bomb proof!!

it is very simple to use and is very adaptable

you can convert it to ccr at a later date if thats the path you choose.

once its set up there is a far lot less to go pete tong than on the desperation.

its far less task loading and needs a lot less maintenance and isnt as cruel to your wallet.

and you can pick up a good second hand unit for less than half the cost of the inspiration.

my two quids worth


regards

mark

[Rob Evans]

Two quids' worth? As much as that?
Had a Drager. Wouldn't have one again.  I suppose it's safe to say that Dolphins don't suffer from blocked jets at all ever?
Or that there have never been fatalities on it? Not even this year?
Or that replacement parts such as regs or even SPGs aren't hideously overpriced?
Perhaps you'd like to remind us what happens if any water at all gets into the breathing loop?
Turn it into a CCR?  Doesn't that have unfortunate effects on its warranty / your life insurance, not to mention the fact that you have to be pretty mechanically minded to do so and there'd be lots and lots of buggering about with KISS valves, flow rates, offboard bottles and god knows what else.  What no built in PO2 sensor?  Bit of an omission that I'd say. If you want a decent, cheap CCR, buy a KISS.

Yes, there is more maintenance to do, but more task loading?  Where? Do I have to worry about going hypoxic under severe workload? Do I have to flush the loop before ascent?  Do I have to switch to OC to accelerate my deco?No. Do I have to mess about getting the right nitrox mix &amp; flow rate for a given depth?  Do I have to refill my tins after every long dive? No.
Ah - I've just remembered.  I have to push a button to inject diluent into the counterlungs on descent and keep an eye on my handsets from time to time. Oh yeah - change setpoints twice per dive, once at the very beginning, once at the end.  Press slider forward to change setpoint. Tricky that.
I found pressing a button on descent altogether far too mentally taxing, so I bought an ADV.  New Inspirations can be bought with them already installed.  With experience, I've also found that listening out for the solenoid injecting O2 at regular intervals is a handy way of checking all is well without looking at the handsets every two minutes.

Yes it's fair to say there is more to go wrong than the Dolphin, perhaps as a corollary of the fact that it's more complex cos it DOES so much more.  But when it does go wrong, as I freely admit mine has on a couple of occasions over the last 150 or so dives on the unit (once as a result of its age - 5yrs &amp; 500+ dives, the second a dodgy O2 cell) you've got much more scope to get out of dodge or even carry on the dive.

For sub-40m stuff the Drager's great, but why spend all that money when a set of 12s will do just as well and for a lot less?
My good S/H Desperation cost less than a fully loaded (ie with at least SOME way of knowing the loop PO2) Dolphin.

Then again, Inspirations don't have dead 'ard tekkie black covers.  Shame.   Judging by the amount of yellow coffins sold compared to the Dolphin and the current waiting list, I'd say the 5000+ Inspiration survivors don't seem to be that bothered either.

I'll stand up and admit that there are pros and cons to CCR diving, that often it seems like the cons outweigh the pros and on balance in a lot of instances OC will be a better bet for many types of diving.  But a Dolphin as the alternative? Why aren't there loads of them out on the boats every weekend then?  I've seen more Megs, Cis-Lunars and Kisses in the last couple of years than Dolphins. That's cos I've seen no Dolphins. Not one.  Don't go thinking I don't get out enough, cos there are at least two users on these boards who can attest to exactly the opposite.

Oh yeah, as regards 'blah blah' has it occurred to you that all the YBODs out there are being bought PRECISELY because of the lack of gas and depth restrictions - the almost total silence, total lack of bubbles and never having to switch gases are just a useful by-product I suppose.

Feel free to slag the YBOD off -I do so enjoy your witty names for the unit, and from past experience slagging does seem to be more your style -  but none of it will affect APD's sales or the fact that the Dolphin's been seriously left behind by every other RB manufacturer out there.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Rob Evans @ June 21 2003,18:53)]Two quids' worth? As much as that?
Had a Drager. Wouldn't have one again.  I suppose it's safe to say that Dolphins don't suffer from blocked jets at all ever?
Or that there have never been fatalities on it? Not even this year? &nbsp;............................................ ........................................
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Feel free to slag the YBOD off -I do so enjoy your witty names for the unit, and from past experience slagging does seem to be more your style -  but none of it will affect APD's sales or the fact that the Dolphin's been seriously left behind by every other RB manufacturer out there.

Robin,

Tut tut tut tut - I am suprised at you, you put a small d on Dodge.

[Rob Evans]

Dodge. &nbsp;Pedant.

[Finless]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Rob Evans @ June 25 2003,00:21)]Pedant.

What's one of them then?

A kind of country worker of olden times?
A child molester or maybe somebody not covered in blood sucking insects - no TIC.

I prefer Accura.

[nitrox]

<font color='#0000FF'>yawn!!  



ive never suffered a blocked jet in over two hundred dives.

maybe if your suffering this you should analyse what your doing wrong and pull yer finger out!!

and my unit didnt cost me a quarter of the cost of the inspiration.

its running costs are minimal, and it will do anything i want it to and so far has done down to 7bar.

not quite up to inspiration standards but, suits what i do and still has more room for growth.

so i figure it this way..... a unit good for 60m for a grand compared to the inspiration??

no contest!!

oh! and by the way, my &quot;ard tekkie dolphin&quot; as you put it dosn't have a black tekkie cover.

it sports a nice shiny ally number



sort of reply i expected from an inspiration owner!!

just cause you got the top kit, dont make you a good diver.

regards

mark

[Mark Chase]

<font color='#000F22'>Nitrox M8

I dont know for sh*t about Dragor to Insperation but I have dived with Rob and you should trust me when I say his abuility in the water is not an issue in this discussion.

ATB

Mark Chase

[Rob Evans]

Just cos I've got the top kit?   Ta very much. You've said it all for me.

Never had a blocked jet on the Drager, got rid of the thing after about 10 dives.  Others have had though, so I'll tell them Nitrox says pull your finger out.

Feel free to carry on with the discussion in your own inimitable style, it'll give me a chuckle when I get back from this week's Normandy trip. Projected gas costs for the whole week are about £12.  If I'm knocking around at 30m, bottom time will be from 80-90min.  On the 50m dive I'll limit myself to 60min - deco gets a bit heavy after that
Got a couple of 60m jobs lined up for Sat &amp; Sun, both of which will be done on one fill of 10/50. Can't be bothered with mega hangs on these so I'll set a limit of 35min on the wreck. From experience, I'll only get though about 40 bar from each tin per dive, so a nice (free) air top afterward'll give me 14/35, good for another weekend's gas diving. I'll have to top up the O2 &amp; change the scrubber, but I suspect that won't break the bank at a tenner..  Expensive old business diving the Box.

Never said you have a black cover on your Drager, but you certainly used to... Still, the piccy of some silly sod all stealthed up with a toy gun in your avatar says a fair bit. &nbsp;That's not you is it?

Never had to go down to 7bar, but if your kit's 'not quite up to Inspiration standards' I guess that's what you have to put up with. I'll keep an eye out for Drager divers on the boat though. Wonder how many I'll see.

[nitrox]

<font color='#0000FF'>blocked jets = bad maintenance

flooded loop = bad practices

my gas costs = nowt.. yes thats right free gas!!

and even if i had to pay for it, with a bit of knowledge of the dolphin and its capabilities one mix dosn't have to mean your stuck to one mix, without remixing.

but you wouldnt know that having only done ten dives on yours would you.

and i dont have to come off loop to accellerate my deco either.

sorb comes at trade via my local friendly dive store.

personally i dont think the inspiration is top kit! as stated i wouldnt have one in my garage.

i have no doubts about yer personal abillities, however your knowledge of the dolphin is less than mine on the inspiration.

oh! and by the way, i saw six in use last weekend and all were very happy with them.

and no the avatar isnt me, i would have thought that obvious to any fool let alone a moderatley educated one. &nbsp;

the original question was ... basic advice on rebreathers and the like.

anyone who advises a novice diver to go straight for module one CCR and buy an inspiration is an idiot!.... IMHO

you wouldnt advise an open water student to go to the box at stoney, or would you??

and all this from the man who took great pleasure in telling the world about his extended deco schedule due to his missus being on the rag!! whilst on holiday.

TOO MUCH INFO M8!!

some people have no shame

enjoy the trip to normandy and i look forward to laughing at more of your knowledgable witterings upon your return

regards

mark

[Mr T.]

Err...'scuse me guys, this appears to be descending into a pissing contest. Please either take it off-line or exchange phone numbers and do it that way; either way NOT here.

Failing that, please feel free to enter into a non-opinionated, non-vitriolic discourse on the relative merits of either RB unit? A radical approach I know, but seems to suit the house style!

Cheers in advance.