rear / side / front mounte pony

[aclivity]

<font color='#000080'>I'm fairly new to this diving lark, and whilst I have bought all of the basic kit required to keep me alive, I am considering the next step with my kit configuration. &nbsp;

I have subscribed to the philosophy that even when diving with a buddy, I should also be 'self sufficient' - I don't want my only hope of recovery to be someone who may be looking the other way when I become out of air, for example.

So, I've decided to get more air. &nbsp;I would consider a twin set - and recognise that in the long term this would give me the best level of redundancy etc. &nbsp;In the short term, cashflow being a consideration, I'm considering a pony cylinder as my bailout option.

Right, so here comes the question. &nbsp;I dive with several people from my club who have pony bottles on their backs, attached to their BCD's. &nbsp;This makes the BC heavier when kitting up (and recovering them into the RIB), and also means that the weight on the BC is lobsided. &nbsp;I'm already lobsided enough, so I looked at other ways to sling the pony. &nbsp;One guy in the club has his pony slung horizontally across his front - it means that kitting up takes a few seconds longer, and there is more to hand up to the RIB, but seems to me to be a more balanced way of doing it. &nbsp;

Another alternative is to side sling it, but this would seem to have the same unbalancing effect as banding it to my main cylinder on my BC.

It'll be a while before I get the cash to buy this (cash flow being a controlled resource - my wife doesn't dive and doesn't understand the need for gadgets and kit .....) so I have time to consider my options. &nbsp;Does anyone have any recommendations or warnings about particular methods?

Andy

[aclivity]

<font color='#000080'>Sitting here and thinking about it some more ........ yeah, I should be working, but thinking about diving is more rewarding ....... is there a concern that the pony slung across my tum would make it harder to remove my weightbelt?


by the time I'm finished I'll have convinced myself I need a twinset and a pair of ponies.

[And]

<font color='#0000FF'>Hi Aclivity

When I dive my singles rig I don't use a pony, don't see the point to be honest if you have decent regs and a decent buddy.

However if forced by gunpoint to use one then I would sidesling it.

If you're planning to dive below 30 mtrs then its better to save for that twinset as that is your best form of redundancy in my opinion.

http://www.dir-uk.org/equipment_guide.doc

Above is an article which changed my whole view on kit and pointed me in the direction I go now. Page 27 mentions Pony bottles

HTH

WL

[Dr Stevil]

<font color='#0000FF'>Eh? relying on your buddy as your air supply, not for me &quot;oh chlorophyll-ed one&quot;

The non-DIR approach: your pony is your redundant system, not your buddy. What does the acronym &quot;SCUBA&quot; stand for?
SELF-CONTAINED Underwater Breathing Apperatus, personally I aim to dive with a buddy but in a self-reliant/self-contained style, I'd far rather go to my redundant supply in a FUBAR than have to take/receive a reg from my buddy.

As for placement, I used to use a pony adjacent to the main tank, nowadays I'd be more inclined to side-sling it and keep it turned off till I needed it, as you would a deco stage
HTH
Steve

[ian Price]

Andy/activity

mmm I have to say I disagree big time with lettuce.

YOU NEED REDUNDANCY! and you can never guarantee not to have a reg problem or depend totally on your buddy for your air.Especially in UK vis. I can't believe that any agency doesnt recommend carrying one.

Try just having someone drill you at random to find your buddy and get air &lt;simulating a 1st stage failure&gt; You will see how much stress it is, even if they are just a couple of meters away and not expecting it.

I am sure a lot of people here will tell you the exact same thing.!!

In regard to rigging it I have a pony on a quick release clamp alongside my 15l, you dont get that lobsided and you can balance by altering the position of your weights. (you can also invert it on your tank to get at the valve.) The quick release clamp allows you to detach if you want prior to getting back into a rib.

Option 2 is to side sling, I actually side sling a 2nd pony on some dives, the advantage of side slinging is that you are able to turn the valve on and off much easier and the bottle is there in front of you. Disadvantage is that its longer to rig up and can get in the way until you are used to it.

so really its up to you, you can always play around with it and find out what you prefer.

My main advice is get one soon, ask the missus how important she thinks it is that you come home after diving! I'm sure she'll think your worth it! You can also look on e-bay for a 2nd hand deal, or try go dive I think they have a deal at £150.

Ian

[malcolm smith]

A hoary old chestnut this pony/no pony. No doubt,a  party line is no pony------straight to twins.
If your dive depth/bottom time allows for a safe ascent on a pony including a safety stop following a disaster from your main cylinder, and carrying a pony is no inconvenience----it isn't----why is this not viewed as a safer option than a single cylinder.
Your good buddy will leisurely ascend with you.
The pony seems to be looked on as 'a bad thing' in some circles.
I have not, so far, been able to get my head round the view that a single is better/safer than a single and pony.
Twins are a seperate issue for deeper/longer dives.
Cheers, Malcolm.
   

[Mark Chase]

<font color='#000F22'>

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wetlettuce @ May 29 2003,19:02)]When I dive my singles rig I don't use a pony, don't see the point to be honest if you have decent regs and a decent buddy.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh  

What if you lose viz and lose buddy?

What if your buddy also runs out of air?

What if your buddy breaths heavy and has not enough air left to get you both home?

What if your asked to buddy with a stranger coz your regular dive buddy couldent make it?

Doing low viz diving is dangerous as buddy seporation is a common occurance. Independance should be the bedrock of safe diving practice.

Have you forgoton the diver who was experaianced and surounded by other divers in 30m viz who ran out of air and died on a guided trip in the red sea?  JB from Divermag was on that dive.

A highley experianced dive guide has just been reported missing after 'becoming seporated' from his buddy in the RED SEA

Have you ever got caught in mono line? You might be at the end of your dive plan and get tangled. Then your suddenly stressed breathing heavy and slipping into deco and so is the buddy trying to free you. You were planning a 100 bar ascent and suddenly you have racked up deco and are down to 50 bar because it took say 5 mins to sort it and you are at 30m.

remember the pony is a totaly independant air supply and is not in the gas plan.

OK rant over:

Side slung 3ltr ponys are generaly easy to ballance if you clip them to the nipple D ring and the hip D ring. I dont even move weights arround to do this on my wing but I used to move a 2kg weight from my pony side to the oposit pouch on my old BCD.

A pony that you can switch EASILY on and off is essential so where ever you mount it you must be able to reach the valve. If you mount it on the single tank just put a 2kg weight on the cam band opposit the cylinder and loose 2kg from the weight belt.

If your into rib diving a slung pony is a big advantage and the other advantage is you can hand it over reg and all to another diver in trouble and they can surface in their own time without taking you along for the ride.

If you mount the pony on the left be warned that the reg will be upside down so you need all the hose to rout the reg in a big circle to get the thing the right way up. This can result in a bit of jaw ach as the reg is pulled down to one side. I use an omny swivel for my left hand deco cylinder to overcome this but a two way reg like a Jet streem is a better idea.

ATB

Mark Chase

[And]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Mark Chase @ May 29 2003,21:35)]What if you lose viz and lose buddy?

What if your buddy also runs out of air?

What if your buddy breaths heavy and has not enough air left to get you both home?

What if your asked to buddy with a stranger coz your regular dive buddy couldent make it?

Doing low viz diving is dangerous as buddy seporation is a common occurance. Independance should be the bedrock of safe diving practice.

Have you forgoton the diver who was experaianced and surounded by other divers in 30m viz who ran out of air and died on a guided trip in the red sea?  JB from Divermag was on that dive.

A highley experianced dive guide has just been reported missing after 'becoming seporated' from his buddy in the RED SEA

Have you ever got caught in mono line? You might be at the end of your dive plan and get tangled. Then your suddenly stressed breathing heavy and slipping into deco and so is the buddy trying to free you. You were planning a 100 bar ascent and suddenly you have racked up deco and are down to 50 bar because it took say 5 mins to sort it and you are at 30m.

remember the pony is a totaly independant air supply and is not in the gas plan.

<font color='#0000FF'>Hi

Point 1. Lose Viz and lose Buddy, why I would surface of course, no solo diving for me thankyou very much

Point 2. Proper dive planning and gas management allows my rock bottom to surface with me and my buddy should they run out of air (which would have to be kit failure!)

Point 3. Again that would be down to proper diveplanning and agreed surfacing pressure (I said 30 mtr max and that also means no overheads (including deco stops so no OBLIGATORY deco for a single)

Point 4. Then I definitely wouldn't be going off on a 30 mtr dive without checking them out first at a shallower depth and if I wasn't satisfied I wouldn't dive, I just wouldn't be happy and I like to dive happy.

Sadly Mark, it appears that buddy seperation is common but totally unnecessary. What is worse is that those seperated buddies then decide to carry on the dive rather than abort it and THAT is why they get into trouble, not because they don't have a pony!

Using your scenario Mark what if it was the pony which got me hung up in the first place or what if I had to cut the pony free to get loose or what if....... and it carries on and on and on.

I still say if you have a decent set of regs (DINS, coldwater) and a decent buddy AND an agreed dive plan within sensible limits you don't NEED a pony.

IMHO

WL

[Andy Phillips]

Ok,

I feel the need to post, , WL, what is one of the main things taught on any extended range diving course. Why it's redundancy, you call yourself DIR and yet you state that you ignore this fundimental of safe diving practice, aw cumon, be real. We dive twins, we spend considerable time and effort learnig how to shut down to preserve back gas in case of an emergency.

For the most part whilst I do not always agree with everything you post you have talked sense. This time you have departed from this.

Andrew

[Diving Dude]

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wetlettuce @ May 29 2003,23:27)]I still say if you have a decent set of regs (DINS, coldwater) and a decent buddy AND an agreed dive plan within sensible limits you don't NEED a pony.

You're right WL.

Also you don't NEED house insurance, or any type of insurance untill you really NEED it.

Thats all a pony is a small lightweight insurance, something which l as a parent with two diving offspring have made them carry since they were able to.

Just out of interest what would hapen on your diveboat if one diver for one of any number of reasons cannot dive? does his buddy then not dive? or would the buddy join another pair as a threesome?

Now l assume your first thought would be no threes therefore buddy loses out, now just say they've travelled 10 hrs to the site, its about the 20th time you have tried to get to this site, the conditions are perfect, if the buddy loses out the peer pressure on the diver who maybe doesn't feel up to it, is great.
You are left with either
1. Diver reluctantly dives, maybe not feeling quite up to it or maybe not fully confident with there kit etc. etc.
2.Neither of the pair dive, they would have to be very close friends for this to happen.
3.Dive as a three.

In 1 &amp; 3 above a pony would be very reasuring because in case 1 your buddy may not be up to it and in case 3 if two divers have a problem the third can only help one and the others solo.

Now if none of the above divers carry ponys normally then decide to, they will not be familiar with their kit and this could cause problems.


l've just read the article on the Gue course, which l found very interesting, except for the one line where Cris Boardman had to attest to not being overweight and a non smoker, and that should his position change Gue would withdraw the certification.

Up untill reading this l was very open minded towards DIR however this shows that these guys live in some fantasy world and do not get out to do real dives.

Do they honestly beleive that what a person weighs has any bearing on what they are like as a diver?

l'm overweight, l'm a building contractor and l would bet that l'm fitter than most `ideal weight` people.