Nitrox Fills Without a Cert Card

[Kev]

Originally Posted by Timbo

Fair comment,,I know people who fill their own tubes from all sorts of so-called questionable sources,,,, ,,,,and quit frankly I begrudge the £15 BSAC charge for the certificate...

The problem is that if you sell nitrox to someone who goes and toxes themselves silly without seeing their card you may end up explaining all this to a judge at some point. I personally would not really fancy doing that. Particularly when if the judge goes down to his LDS and asks for nitrox there is at least a reasonable chance they will ask him for a cert card. I reckon you would win the case but what do I know and who needs the ballache?

With that in mind I would not sell you nitrox without a cert card. Good job I do not work at your LDS!

On the other hand, nobody asks for a cert card when getting an air fill. So if you sell air to some idiot who goes and kills themselves with it the difference is that the same judge will not be asked for a cert card when he tries going down to his LDS to buy air.

Therefore I would happily sell air to any old fool.

[milldog]

Originally Posted by Kev

The problem is that if you sell nitrox to someone who goes and toxes themselves silly without seeing their card you may end up explaining all this to a judge at some point. I personally would not really fancy doing that. Particularly when if the judge goes down to his LDS and asks for nitrox there is at least a reasonable chance they will ask him for a cert card. I reckon you would win the case but what do I know and who needs the ballache?

With that in mind I would not sell you nitrox without a cert card. Good job I do not work at your LDS!

On the other hand, nobody asks for a cert card when getting an air fill. So if you sell air to some idiot who goes and kills themselves with it the difference is that the same judge will not be asked for a cert card when he tries going down to his LDS to buy air.

Therefore I would happily sell air to any old fool.

But there is still no legal requirement to see a cert card, would you sell argon to a diver who wants to bank it for the inflation bottle and handed you a 12l cylinder?

Graham

[ruffy]

Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland

Ask the shop if they ever check a cylinder owner is qualified to dive on air?

Must be even more important to know if you are filling tanks for a non quallified diver!

[milldog]

Originally Posted by ruffy

Must be even more important to know if you are filling tanks for a non quallified diver!

why ??

what law says you have to do a course to dive

i had been diving for two years before i got an open water cert, and i was diving trimix

Graham

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Kev

The problem is that if you sell nitrox to someone who goes and toxes themselves silly without seeing their card you may end up explaining all this to a judge at some point.

Air Products have never asked me for any certification for any of the gas I've ever bought from them, they've never asked what I want it for or what I'm going to do with it. Unmixed components are a hell of a lot more dangerous than the final mix. I would imagine a company headed up by beancounters would be more concerned with litigation if it was a real worry.

The whole showing a cert thing grew out of agency protectionism and it's been going round so long no-one can remember why and believe all the "legality" nonsense. You want nitrox? Do a course. You want to sell gas? Then you have to sell courses as well. Well done, now put this logo above your door...

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by milldog

why ??

what law says you have to do a course to dive

i had been diving for two years before i got an open water cert, and i was diving trimix

Graham

there isn't but he is illustrating how fecking stupid the country is getting in regards of

helfensayftee.

yes it is being pronounced like that rather than 2 separate words.

I was in a petrol station yesterday and the young chavvy lad in front of me was asked by the attendant/till monkey if he had a driving licence as it was helfensayftee as he needed a licence to buy petrol.

thats obblox of the first order. yes you need to be 16 to buy petrol but you don't need a driving licence too.


its the same a the PADI liability waiver in the UK, once i was qualified I signed mine as mickey mouse as thats what the paer is really a mickey mouse document.

its up to the individual LDS as to whether they ask, same as whether they want to fill any cylinder that they thinks not O2 clean.

one place I use for gas refused to fill the twins as the sticker expired the next day. I went to another station 2 days later and got em filled.

[Adrian Kelland]

Originally Posted by milldog

But there is still no legal requirement to see a cert card, would you sell argon to a diver who wants to bank it for the inflation bottle and handed you a 12l cylinder?

Graham

However the UK dive industry have created a rod for their own back by in effect creating a code of practice. The same goes for the 2.5 year visual test and O2 clean.

So while there is no legal requirement, a LDS proprietor may find themselves in a court explaining why they decided not to follow this 'standard practice' used by their own industry and created by their trade body. Even if that LDS is not a member of SITA. If they can prove that their practice and risk assessments are 'better' than those of SITA etc., then they may be OK.

Adrian

[Kev]

Originally Posted by milldog

But there is still no legal requirement to see a cert card, would you sell argon to a diver who wants to bank it for the inflation bottle and handed you a 12l cylinder?

Graham

Now that is a really good question. Going back to my original analysis on the cert cards then I would have to say yes as I understand you do not typically have to show a cert card when getting an argon fill. I imagine that there may be more to this one though - i.e. is an appropriate gas being put in an appropriate cylinder? What do you think?

Originally Posted by milldog

why ??

what law says you have to do a course to dive

i had been diving for two years before i got an open water cert, and i was diving trimix

Graham

Thats interesting - did you teach yourself or did somebody show you what to do when you started?

[Kev]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

Air Products have never asked me for any certification for any of the gas I've ever bought from them, they've never asked what I want it for or what I'm going to do with it. Unmixed components are a hell of a lot more dangerous than the final mix. I would imagine a company headed up by beancounters would be more concerned with litigation if it was a real worry.

The whole showing a cert thing grew out of agency protectionism and it's been going round so long no-one can remember why and believe all the "legality" nonsense. You want nitrox? Do a course. You want to sell gas? Then you have to sell courses as well. Well done, now put this logo above your door...

I am sure you are right. If I sell you a rope it is not going to be my problem if you hang yourself with it. The point I am trying to make is that a lot of people are asking for cert cards - therefore (as a risk averse person) personally I would do it too. Not because it is a legal requirement, but just because I would not fancy being asked why I had not done it if you go and kill yourself with the gas.

[liamm]

There seems to be an element that is offended or annoyed by being asked for cert cards? Maybe i'm reading this wrong but why is a problem to ask for a card?