Nitrox Fills Without a Cert Card

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by liamm

There seems to be an element that is offended or annoyed by being asked for cert cards? Maybe i'm reading this wrong but why is a problem to ask for a card?

I don't have a problem with it but I don't really understand why it's necessary. I do think if you're going to ask for a card then you should make an effort to make it as easy for the customer as possible and I think the system they use at Dive Life is a great idea, register once and never need to show the card again. But in general, I'd rather see a buy what you like policy as long as the container meets the appropriate standard.

When I used to do gas fills for a shop I was once asked to fill a twinset with EAN50. I asked the guy what he was diving. He said a 50m wreck (EAN50 = MOD of 50m, right?). He had the cert to buy the gas, the cylinders are in test and O2 service, he wants a set filled with EAN50. Do you refuse to fill the cylinders?

A few years ago I left a 7l to be filled with oxygen in a shop. I picked it up and it was EAN80. The guy in the shop said he felt 100% was too dangerous to dive on so he would only do EAN80.

A couple of years ago I asked a shop to fill a 3L with trimix and they refused to do it unless I produced a MOD3 cert (I've had an OC ticket for 12yrs). Why? My OC ticket says I can buy whatever gas I want, it makes no mention of cylinder size or what I use it for.

In all these cases the gas is being bought legitimately under the certifications that were issued. Are shops justified in second guessing and making judgement calls on what the end user should be using his gas for? They are a supplier, not the dive police.

H&S is not the problem, it's people who have had no training or safety background trying to enforce their own interpretation of health and safety.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Kev]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

When I used to do gas fills for a shop I was once asked to fill a twinset with EAN50. I asked the guy what he was diving. He said a 50m wreck (EAN50 = MOD of 50m, right?). He had the cert to buy the gas, the cylinders are in test and O2 service, he wants a set filled with EAN50. Do you refuse to fill the cylinders?

What can you say to that? Are you sure he wasn't winding you up?

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by NotDeadYet

I don't have a problem with it but I don't really understand why it's necessary. I do think if you're going to ask for a card then you should make an effort to make it as easy for the customer as possible and I think the system they use at Dive Life is a great idea, register once and never need to show the card again. But in general, I'd rather see a buy what you like policy as long as the container meets the appropriate standard.

The other thing that Brett likes to do is keep you on your toes and the first time I went in for a Nx fill, he asked me to do all the working out - to prove I knew what I was doing with it.

[NotDeadYet]

Originally Posted by Kev

What can you say to that? Are you sure he wasn't winding you up?

Nope, he was serious.

I filled the cylinders and then marked up a bit of tape with mix, MOD and date. "So that's a MOD of 18m then?"

"What do you mean?"

"EAN50 at 18m is 1.4"

"Errr..."

"That'll be twelve quid please... Oh, don't you want the gas? In that case, that's still twelve quid..."

What can I say, I'm Scottish. I also accepted a request to oxygen clean a drysuit for nitrox use

[MixedUp]

I ask myself for my cert card every time I fill my cylinders with O2 or trimix. I then tell myself to fcuk off as I can't find them. So I just give myself the gas anyway.

Steve

[warmwaterdiver]

ditto Steve

I even ask myself if I really should be doing the kind of diving that the gas is applicable for, but I just keep getting abuse

[uwila]

Originally Posted by Kev

I am sure you are right. If I sell you a rope it is not going to be my problem if you hang yourself with it.

It may well be your problem: If I walked into your shop and asked what sort of rope would be strong enough so that I could hang myself, then you would be in deep doo if you sold me one and I used it to kill myself. At the very least, a strong ticking off from a coroner would result.

If I had expressed a desire to use it to hang my wife and then did so, you could well face an aiding and abetting charge.

There seems to be well established case law that all retailers have a duty of care not to sell dangerous products to
youngsters
those who aren't properly licensed (eg guns)

The grey area surrounds the definition of dangerous items when no specific law applies. I can imagine the sh*t storm that would descend upon an LDS which sold a tin of 50% to a 16 year old without checking for certification, if that young person subsequently toxed at 30m. Surely it makes sense for the LDS to ask for a cert card even when supplying air. Diving without any training is dangerous and diving on a rich mix can be dangerous at shallower depths so what's the problem with asking to see a cert?

[MixedUp]

All the talk has been about the showing of cert cards. These cards say what gas you are qualified to dive with.

So can anyone tell me what card I need to produce to go into a shop and fill my 15 litre cylinder with 100% helium.

Steve

[warmwaterdiver]

Originally Posted by Steve Jones

So can anyone tell me what card I need to produce to go into a shop and fill my 15 litre cylinder with 100% helium.

Barclaycard?

[nigelH]

Originally Posted by Steve Jones

So can anyone tell me what card I need to produce to go into a shop and fill my 15 litre cylinder with 100% helium.

VISA

I really must sort out my cards some time. One day I'm going to need a fill away from home and this 'I don't need them' attitude is going to catch up with me when some jobsworth won't fill me with O2.