SCR, is it worth it ?.

[garygee]

Hi folks

Have been looking to move to a rebreather for a while now and had decided on the inspiration with evo electronics. The big problem is the cost!!.

I am over half way their but still likly to be 12-18 months away.
Everytime I get close another big bill comes along!!.

So i started to look at cheaper options and the Submatrix SCR.
This is within budget now.

After a long chat with Abyss it is possible to mod this to a CCR using parts supplied by the uk importer at a later date if wanted. Its a totally manual system though.

My diving is mostly in the 30-40M range on open circuit.
Currently doing Normoxic Trimix so want to use open circuit trimix below say 40M for a while and even if I wanted to it would take me 12 months+ to get trimix in the inspiration. I usually dive with open circuit divers and mainly want to reduce weight and still be able to do a days diving without swapping cylnders, say two 1 hour dives.

So the question

Is going SCR worth it ?, or is a CCR so much better for what diving I am doing?.
What do people think of the Submatrix?.
How easy, when modified to CCR are the to run manualy?.
Anyone got/using the Submatrix?.

Any comments or help welcome. Dont want to get if wrong as this is a one off buy.

Thanks Gary

[Depth-junkie]

Hi Gary

I currently dive OC trimix, but am due to take delivery of a new inspo with the vision elecs early Dec. My move to CCR is due to the high costs of regular trimix diving. I am regulary paying around £100-£140 for gas for a weekend mix diving.

My advice would be not to bother with the OC trimix route, and get the inspo on orderd now (its currently running at a 11 month del). As when you switch from OC to CC most of your OC skills are nil and void, and skills need to be relearnt and masterd.

If you are serious about getting in to trimix diving CCR is the route to go down not semiclosed, so dont waist money on gear which will need to be upgraded as you progress. As for OC dont waist money on equipment and courses which wont be of any use to you when you make the switch from OC to CC. For example i am currently OC Adv-Trimix qualified but i will have to repeat a trimix course for the rebreather, so i am doubling up on courses just to dive to depths on gases that i am already qualified to use(But i wont go into that debate on this thread )

But if you already own all the OC kit for trimix diving then go for it, it is good to get a season mix diving OC under yourbelt, as IMHO OC mix diving is probably the most discaplined side of our sport. I just would not waist anymore money on on gear if you are going to end up on CCR.


ATB
Gareth

[Phil Ennis]

My personal view is that I wouldn't bother with SCR, that's what you do if your electronics go down

I would buy a secondhand Inspiration, presently going for £2,500.00 to £3,000.00 and then put an order in for the Vision which is an 11 month waiting list at the moment.

The secondhand units are coming up regularly as the owners Visions arrive, probably the best time to buy a secondhand one, some of them are selling with quite a few extras aswell.

Have a look at www.rebreatherworld.com

[froglee]

Well,I am very happy with my SCR...Drager Dolphin.Most of my diving is within the 20-35m range and it is perfect for this.I have trydived the Inspiration and was impressed but wonder if all the advanced features of computer controlled mixes are all really neccessary,at least for the kind of diving you do.It adds another level of complexity to your diving and requires quite a leap from Open Circuit nitrox.An SCR will do everything you need,is cheaper,is simpler and mechanically robust,is easier to learn on and you can decide later if you want to go onto the next step of CCR diving.

[Phil Ennis]

Originally Posted by froglee

Well,I am very happy with my SCR...Drager Dolphin.Most of my diving is within the 20-35m range and it is perfect for this.I have trydived the Inspiration and was impressed but wonder if all the advanced features of computer controlled mixes are all really neccessary,at least for the kind of diving you do.It adds another level of complexity to your diving and requires quite a leap from Open Circuit nitrox.An SCR will do everything you need,is cheaper,is simpler and mechanically robust,is easier to learn on and you can decide later if you want to go onto the next step of CCR diving.

Fine, very happy for you! Gary states that he is heading the Trimix route, hence my advice.

[JStop]

I think the SCR systems are vastly underated. They are the perfect system for most diving to 40m. After this the CCRs come into their own for simplicity of diving. However, the SCR can be used in the 40+ range on trimix to great depths with sensible gas switching. Yes, it is more complicated. However, if you can manage this you will be a better diver. CCR Trimix is for muppets by comparison.

Think about the diving you do and are likely to do and pick a unit to suit. Do not go for a CCR and then feel obliged to find dives that you think will justify your expenditure.

Dive for enjoyment!

[Little Pete]

You think CCR is pricey, look at the Halcyon SCR and the route you need go down to get mix diving on that:

"Must be GUE DIR Fundamentals and GUE Tech 2 qualified or equivalent
Must have at least 300 scuba dives beyond open water qualification. Fifty (50) must have been in doubles, with twenty-five (25) involving stage decompression."

Taken from the GUE website. Also note Tech1 and rebreather 1 are required.

However....think how bloody good a diver you'd need to be to get up to that level. Now think about how good you should be as a rebreather diver after that. Couple that with a top end rebreather system and good gas switching.....mmmm low gas bills and serious diving available


Oh well, see you on a rebreather in about 10 years time

[NotDeadYet]

What's the point? Most SCRs are rated shallow, I don't see an awful lot of benefit in using them over OC. They are probably more expensive on a shallow dive than OC and take a lot more hassle.

As a progression to trimix CCR? Don't bother, each rebreather has it's own set of skills, it's just something else to unlearn when you finally go CCR.

For me personally, I don't feel comfortable on active SCRs. They have no obvious failure modes to warn you of an imminent problem. At least a CCR if you are paying attention will let you know something is wrong. Other things to remember is that when converting an SCR to CCR... a. your life is totally reliant on YOUR handiwork, are you comfortable with that? And b. scrubbers that are designed for SCR use are not necessarily designed to run in CCR. In SCR you don't need the same scrubbing efficiency that a CCR requires because there is some flushing of the loop. In CCR, what is in the loop stays in the loop be traces of CO2 or traces of last night's kebab.

If money is stopping you buying a CCR now then don't waste any more buying a SCR if you do not need it.

[londonsean69]

Originally Posted by Little Pete

You think CCR is pricey, look at the Halcyon SCR and the route you need go down to get mix diving on that:....

However....think how bloody good a diver you'd need to be to get up to that level. Now think about how good you should be as a rebreather diver after that. Couple that with a top end rebreather system and good gas switching.....mmmm low gas bills and serious diving available

Too big and heavy for OW work, trust me, I dive the EDO which is an RB80 copy.

The RB80 is designed for long, deep cave work, just ask DB8US (His dive buddy is the RB in RB80)

I am contemplating converting my EDO to a CCR, just so I can swap the 7l cylinders for 3´s, and enjoy even better than 8:1 gas usage

Just my opinion

[NotDeadYet]

I found exactly the same with the EDO-04. I had made the decision to buy one and then was lucky enough to try diving with one in France. I'm so glad I did now, it was just far too heavy and unwieldy. I thought it was a nice idea, I liked the whole mechanical thing but the advantages of fully closed circuit to me far outweighed that.

Originally Posted by londonsean69

I am contemplating converting my EDO to a CCR, just so I can swap the 7l cylinders for 3´s, and enjoy even better than 8:1 gas usage

I'd be careful doing that. From memory the head doesn't have any space for sensors, as I recall Phi had to cannibalise the kidneys from a Sports KISS. Also I found the counterlungs quite small, I'm sure that's fine on SCR but on CCR then it's going to be a problem, you might find you churn through dil. There's also no real way to match the counterlung volume to your own lung volume. The bellows are whatever size they are, I don't think they do other sizes. You no longer have the ability to dump drool/water/condensation either so that will reduce the loop even more. Another thing that worried me was as I mentioned in the post above, SCR scrubbers aren't necessarily going to work as well on CCR. With the single lung i.e. the bellows, then you are getting half the dwell time in the scrubber that you would with a two lung RB like the KISS or YBOD. Where this might be fine when you are constantly refreshing the loop on SCR, I wouldn't like to do it CCR.

Just flog it and buy a KISS!!! Get it over and done with!!!