Our own Holocaust

[Tony F]

Originally Posted by Moray

Back in 1982, I was driving from Vienna to Zurich with my daughter, and I happened to see the motorway exit sign for Dachau. It was a spur of the moment thing, but I will never forget it, nor will my daughter.

Interesting were the groups of German schoolchildren, noisy and boisterous on their way in, silent and thoughtful on their way out.

Unfortunately, as noted in some of the other replies to this thread, we have learned nothing.....

Hmm... I'm not so sure about that.

Thinking about Dachau and the like moves me to tears, those German school children weren't exactly laughing when they came out and governments seek to keep those camps to teach us all. I don't think visiting the camps makes anyone proud, like me and many others among my friends I bet you were moved to tears and so are many others if they think hard enough about those terrible places. Michael too I'd imagine.

I'm English and the friends I refer to include Americans, Irish, Brits, French and Norwegian. I can add you and your daughter as Swiss, Michael and a bunch of young school children as Germans. Many European governments have helped to keep these places as memorials, places in which future generations may learn from the past.

We all feel the same way, I'm pretty confident that for once we have all learned something, perhaps not well enough but it's a start. Well done us.

[Tony F]

Originally Posted by Mr T.

Results of poll
By Julie Henry, Adam Lusher and Peter Zimonjic
(Filed: 23/01/2005)

1. What was the Holocaust?............

Bren - any idea how old the children (?) concerned in that poll were?

To be perfectly fair I have my doubts about this. Most of the youngsters I know have a pretty good grasp of the above and I'm not sure at what age I'd expect them to know much more.

There's a lot to learn at school and a basic education by definition cannot teach children everything, therefore it may only be as we get older we grasp and learn more of our history.

We're all a work in progress afterall.

[Tony F]

Originally Posted by Ted

So Mr.T Your now the voice of Anti abortion on YD and also decide to compare it to the Holocaust. You have no idea as I've said to you in the bad rep you trully are scraping the barrel with this one. To try and compare one with the other it really shows how ignorant you are.

FFS.

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by Tony F

We're all a work in progress afterall.

And that's actually one of the moot points here: "We're all (or at least those of us who are allowed and make it that far - whether that be the Jews & Russo-Slavs, Catholics and Gypsies of 1930s/40s German, the handicapped, the aborted of today... ) a work in progress..."

[Ted]

Originally Posted by Mr T.

Err..No Ted - I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to miss the point...

I merely took a newspaper article and put it up for debate. It's got sod-all to do with YD or the opinion of YD (as on this topic I can tell you YD doesn't have an opinion). As a free man in a free country, you might do well to remember that we are still - last time I checked - allowed to comment on issues in life with which we might, by turns, agree or disagree.

You appear to have misread my post, always a useful atribute, I presume you have selective hearing as well. It plainly sais about you being the voice on YD not OF YD, so plainly being you own thoughts on the subject.

Originally Posted by Mr T.

So you're emotive side saw the words 'abortion' and Holocaust' and then removed your ability to juggle with or extrapolate rationale or debate now did it? What bit about the parallel between the object and wholesale removal of rights (life in both cases - abortion and the Jews) do you not get? Please, I'm genuinely interested to learn. Or are you one of these folks who's just very vocal in their disapproval and incapable of explaining why?

I'm happy to explain why, I didn't realise I would be able to write so much when giving rep. I think one visit tot he holocaust museum in Israel pretty much shows the difference between the two subjects. Meeting and talking to some of the peole who survived that hell and listening to them scream out every night , as they have done since they escaped from it. Why don't you go and tell those people that what they went through and what those who didn't survive went through is comparable to abortion.

Originally Posted by Mr T.

Ah yes, your awarding of the following: Ted wrote "There's no politics on YD. Take this shit somewhere else!! Your really scraping the barrel with this."

Ted, there is politics in all facets of life - see the polls section and any number of threads in the Non-Diving Section. Whether you agree with them or not is a completely different matter. You sate that I'm 'ignorant' and have 'no idea', and yet you're incapable of or unwilling to explaining why? So you're happy to shout me down without explanation, eh? Rather reminiscent of the Beir Kellars which heralded in the Nazis and their stifling of debate or counterpoint also, what? Shout loud, without reasonable explanation and hope to crush any comment or objection?

And I'm the ignorant one? OK mate.

Ahh there we go again incabable of actually expressing why you have this view on the subject but just dragging up the same as your first paragraph. You say these aren't your veiws but you just put forward a newspaper article for debate. So maybe I've missread something here but from your post it would seam that your quite happy to compare the two and sit happily on the side of 'Holocaust-abortion, one in the same.'

Yes there is debate on YD and politcs of a nature but what you've decided to do in your troll like manner is bring something on to YD which IMHO doesn't belong on this site. So because you don't agree with me disagreeing with you you decide to compare me with the Nazies. I never said don't talk about it, I just gave my opinion thet YD is not the place to express such extreme views. But hey once again instead of entering to a debate which you claim to be doing you seem more content to resort to insults.

Anyway got to go and do some work, I'm sure there'll be more for me to reply to later.

Kee p diving

Ted.

[Tony F]

Originally Posted by Mr T.

And that's actually one of the moot points here: "We're all (or at least those of us who are allowed and make it that far - whether that be the Jews & Russo-Slavs, Catholics and Gypsies of 1930s/40s German, the handicapped, the aborted of today... ) a work in progress..."

Not quite sure what you're getting at there - yes, we all have to be allowed to live and develop.

Anyway back to my question, I've read the thread fully now and see quotes from 12 and 13 year olds. I've also picked up on this quote from Jim:

Originally Posted by jim oldham

"I hated history becuase I couldn't see the relevant of General Custer to my life". I can understand you feeling like this, but the topic you took was designed to hone you analyitical, investigatory and evaluation skills. The subject matter was really immaterial.

I realise this topic is going off in a number of ways but my point is that the original articles slanted as detremental to British children is unfair.

Of course given the nature of some of the other posts in here now I'm begining to wish I'd ignored the thread as my point doesn't seem so important