Police points scheme 'ludicrous'

[Mr T.]

If this is true, this is beyond parody. Coppers having to 'build up a quota' of nicks?

Taff Copper: "Ah, well, look-yeer, boyo, I've not made me 200 points this month, so to avoid grief from the boss, look busy and make me target (coppers as salesmen??!! FFS), I'll just go and nick someone for the sake of it [where normally I'd let 'em off with a warning]...."

[heavy Welsh accent] There's lovely

The Chief Constable of this constabulary appears to be trying to out-source his force and put it on a paying basis - what the fuck is he smoking? Coppers are not meant to be 'profitable'; they are supposed to be [well] funded out of taxes and allowed to do their bloody job without targets or close adherence to agendas (cf. 'gender awarenes', race, cloour et at - ANYONE can be a villain!!)





Police points scheme 'ludicrous'



No bonus will be given for officers who exceed the points minimum

An MP has criticised North Wales Police plans for a 'points' system to monitor officers' performance in catching motorists committing traffic offences.

From 1 July, officers will be set a monthly points target of 200 which they will build up through arrest numbers.

An arrest of a speeding motorist would bring five points while arresting a drink driver would mean 25 points.

Alyn and Deeside MP Mark Tami said the pilot scheme could "shred public confidence in the police".

The Police Federation have described the scheme as "ludicrous".

North Wales Police, led by Richard Brunstrom who is known for his tough anti-speeding policies, is bringing in the six-month trial to reduce road casualties, crime and bad driving. What the police need is targets for being seen on our streets


Mark Tami MP



Officers in Wrexham and Flintshire are believed to have been given targets of 200 points to reach every month when the scheme begins.

The introduction of the trial scheme follows a similar project announced by Thames Valley Police in 2002.

But Alyn and Deeside MP Mark Tami criticised the plans adding that if targets were to be introduced they should be applied to community beat patrols instead.

The Labour MP said: "This has the potential to shred public confidence in the police.

"What the police need is targets for being seen on our streets, not for issuing fines for motoring offences.

MP Mark Tami said officers should spend more time on the streets



"I am very worried by the path North Wales Police have taken and agree with the Police Federation that setting targets for traffic police is ludicrous."

The Police Federation had earlier criticised the force's proposals.

A spokesman said: "We think it's a ludicrous way to run operational policing.

"What the general public want more than anything else is a good quality service.

"A good, local community bobby may spend eight hours in his village and that individual officer would be judged unsatisfactory under this criteria."

A spokesman for North Wales Police said the points system was being trialled as a way of monitoring the performance of its officers based in the Operational Support Division at Wrexham.

Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom is known for his anti-speeding policies



He said that it was to reduce driving offences such as using mobile phones, dangerous driving and failing to wear seatbelts.

But he also said that the targets will be used to monitor the performance of its officers.

"It is not a league table and the standard that is expected should be easily achieved by officers," he said.

"Performance will be measured on officers' productivity.

"The officers will not receive any bonus for exceeding the required standard."

The force's Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom has caused controversy with his anti-speeding policies and has branded speeders "criminals" and "anti-social".

In March last year he was called "the godfather of the speed camera" by Police magazine, the official publication of the Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers in England and Wales.

[Steve L.]

Welcome to modern policing. The lunatics are running the asylum !

They should introduce a points system for catching Peadophiles and Murderers, might win some public support then!

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by Steve L.

Welcome to modern policing. The lunatics are running the asylum !

The irony of this is that there is a team of Police officers - SO19 - who, in the normal course of doing the job they are both paid and trained to do, and shooting the bad guys (where and when appropriate), can expect all the tea and sympathy, counselling and not a little opprobrium from the Liberals they can muster......before being binned from the job they love and never being allowed near a firearm again.....before having umpteen enquiries into just why and how they had the gross temerity and bad manners to do what they were paid to do.

[Captain Deco]

This is nothing new. We have a points system in the BTP and we don't even deal with traffic matters. We are activley encouraged to use no discretion at all, and just nick everything to hit our benchmarking targets, and on the strength of the amount of various things we deal with, such as arrests, process and searches, we get graded out of ten. Below 5 or 6 and we have to go and explain oursleves to the governors.

As you can see I am in a real hurry to get off my unofficial suspension to rejoin that load of shit. Policing is all about buzzwords and statistics and the powers that be don't give a shit about your problems with yobbos or drunks or peados unless there is mileage to be gained for figures massaging purposes. Meanwhile all the foot soldiers have to deal with the fallout from this system, and the public end up getting a dejected bunch of fed up and burnt out people who are just going through the motions to get their paycheque.

[dry suit diver]

Originally Posted by scubajay

This is nothing new. We have a points system in the BTP and we don't even deal with traffic matters. We are activley encouraged to use no discretion at all, and just nick everything to hit our benchmarking targets, and on the strength of the amount of various things we deal with, such as arrests, process and searches, we get graded out of ten. Below 5 or 6 and we have to go and explain oursleves to the governors.

As you can see I am in a real hurry to get off my unofficial suspension to rejoin that load of shit. Policing is all about buzzwords and statistics and the powers that be don't give a shit about your problems with yobbos or drunks or peados unless there is mileage to be gained for figures massaging purposes. Meanwhile all the foot soldiers have to deal with the fallout from this system, and the public end up getting a dejected bunch of fed up and burnt out people who are just going through the motions to get their paycheque.

Sounds like most jobs these days, you have my sympathy.

[Mr T.]

Police officers turn 'bounty hunters' against motorists
By Nigel Bunyan
(Filed: 28/06/2005)

A chief constable was accused yesterday of turning his officers into "bounty hunters" after introducing a scheme that awarded them points for arresting motorists.

Richard Brunstrom, the head of North Wales Police, will award his traffic officers about 25 points for catching drink-drivers and five for motorists who are caught speeding.

The officers will also accrue monthly points for catching motorists guilty of dangerous driving, using their mobile telephones while at the wheel, or failing to wear seatbelts.

Mr Brunstrom insisted that the scheme was simply a means of monitoring the performance of individual officers. But a motoring lobby group said the chief constable should be "ashamed of himself''.

Tony Vickers, a spokesman for the Association of British Drivers, added: "It is outrageous to impose quotas on police officers to nab a certain number of drivers for road offences.

''Mr Brunstrom is turning his traffic police into bounty hunters. The offer of incentives to find fault with drivers will lead to trivial prosecutions and waste money and resources. A sensible officer who would normally issue a verbal warning for a minor incident will now be compelled to prosecute to earn Brownie points.''

Elfwyn Llwyd, the Plaid Cymru MP for Conwy, said: "All the common sense and discretion successfully used by officers is going to go out of the window.''

The scheme will run as a six-month trial from Friday. A similar project was announced by Thames Valley Police earlier in the year.

A spokesman for North Wales Police said: "The objectives include casualty reduction, engaging criminality on the road, driving while using mobile phones, dangerous driving, failure to wear seatbelts, etc.

''However, the performance indicators will also be used to ensure that each officer is performing satisfactorily.

''It is not a league table and the standard that is expected should be easily achieved by officers. Performance will be measured on officers' productivity and they will not receive any bonus for exceeding the required standard.''

http://www.brake.org.uk/

[Mark Davies]

Don't get me started on this! Oh, too late - you already have . . .

I am well known within my force for being rather vocal against any kind of personal targets. A short while ago I came to the Chief Constable's attention when protesting on this issue on the Force's internal discussion forum. I got hauled into the office and the forum was closed down, but I stood my ground on it and continue to fight it.

We don't have targets for traffic matters (just as well as I never do any!) but we now do have personal targets for crime detection. I do (and have always) exceeded these targets, so they are not a personal issue for me, but I do think it is an ethical issue.

The moment you begin to measure something and give people a target, it influences their behaviour. Now clearly that is the intention - they want to try and increase our detection rates. But it is lazy and ill-conceived management. I work so hard and am rushed about so much that all I can do is go to the incidents I am sent to and deal with them. If there is a crime in it that can be detected, I detect it. If there isn't, I don't. It's that simple. There is little I can do to influence which incidents I go to, so frankly my detection rates are out of my hands. Last month I got 9 detections and was the division's golden-boy - this month only 1. It all depends on what I get to deal with.

So how does an officer increase their detection rates to keep on target? What worries me is that people will find themselves being arrested and charged for offences when, though technically they may have committed the offence, it may have been more appropriate to deal with it another way.

A classic example is people who are drunk and disorderly. Could be a young lad who's got himself absolutely legless for the first time and doesn't know what he is doing. He comes across some officers and starts being a complete arse. The way to deal with this is to lock him up for being drunk and disorderly, put him into a cell until he is sober and then release him with a verbal ticking off. We get a potential problem off the streets, he learns a lesson and walks away unscathed. However, this behaviour also falls within offences under the public order act, so what is happening now is that said individual gets charged with that offence, goes to court and gets a criminal record that effects the rest of his life. And why? For no other reason than to get an extra detection and a tick in a box.

It's a bloody disgrace - and believe me there's not a single officer below the rank of Inspector who is in any way in favour of it. The result is that we just don't arrest these people at all now. We have to find another way to deal with it to avoid someone getting a record. Of course, while they are pissed up they don't appreciate all the trouble we are going to in order to help them out and the situation can turn into a real nightmare. There's no increase in detections and all it has done is taken away a useful tool and made our job harder.

If it angers you, do us all a favour and write to your MP to complain!

[bonkers the dog]

Could'nt agree more mate, we have various "Performance indicators" up here in Strathclyde that the gaffers are obsessed with. Naturally we all get our @rses felt if those figures are not supplied on a daily basis so we divert ourselves from proper policing requiremements to supply the pen pushers who are legion! Of course they say it is not a league table, but these figures are compiled and are published monthly and if we don't exceed last months target/total we are reprimanded.

Sadly it is the culture we all live in. New Labour (Tory Lite) are utterly obsessed with tables and figures and have elevated Control Freakery and micro management to a staggering level, The police suffer as does Local Govt, NHS, Millitary etc we just have to do our best to perform within those new perameters.

Thankfully we have not yet reached the level of lunacy as described earlier that the C/C of N. Wales has embarked on, but I feel we are now sitting on the point of the wedge. It is just another attempt to relieve us of our descretionary powers. Powers that the Politicians have been after for 30 years and too many Senior Cops and C/C's just don't have the experience, spine or energy to fight; too scared that they won't get their CBE!

I use my powers of descretion on a regular basis for wee BOP's and minor traffic offences. Sometimes it is better to administer a verbal and a finger wagging as we operate in a semi-rural area of Scotland; the last thing I need is the message getting around that I am a Martinet . These are the same folks I rely on for support should we be trying to solve something more important or God forbid, be in serious bother and 20+ minutes away from assistance and in danger of an imminent bleaching. Like everything in life it is a balance, it is shades of grey; such ill thought out policy is black and white. That is no way to run things.

Of course those powers of descretation have already been seriously damaged with the introduction of the Scottish Crime Recording Standard. I am now in the ludicrous position were any person can make the MOST spurious claim of a crime to me, ie junkies double-dipping the giro, drunks losing phones and saying that they've been nicked, wains fighting etc etc etc and I am legally bound to investigate it. It wastes a monsterous amount of time, but If I don't, I face disciplinary action for dereliction of duty. Madness!

And afore some wags says it; yes it is wasting police time but people very rarely get charged with that. Not worth the hassle, the courts are already clogged and .....get this as it is the official party line, " We don't want to discourage people from reporting crime". Which gives any cave dweller carte-blanche to claim anything and get away with it; Catch-22 anyone? Sometimes it is positively Kafkaesque.

One thing is for sure though. If I am targetted so will you all be, make no mistake on that, all Cops will do likewise. If my pay, pension and promotional prospects depend on targets I will not stop till they are exceeded and I have satisfied the requirements of the moment. No excuses will be accepted, the most minor offence will be reported to the PF so I can hit my totals. I won't care if your'e old, ill, poor; if society wants 'Zero Tolerance' and 'Best Value' that is exactly what they will get. We must all be careful what we wish for.

Like the previous post says if you find that vaguely unsavoury, write to your MP.

On a more broader note.....

So the next time any of you armchair pundits out there chose to slag me and my colleagues just take a moment to consider how very difficult our job really is these days. think closely about the climate of Political Correctness, Paranoia, @rse covering, Political ambition and interference, chronic underfunding, under Manning, complaints, poor pay & conditions, low morale, lack of promotion, sphincter-puckering levels of violence, terrible shifts, ill concieved legislation, binge-drinkers, abussive kids etc etc etc ad infinitum. Then when you have taken all that on board ask yourselves:

A) why do they keep at it?.

We keep at it because it is a good job, it is varried, we like helping others, we like to make a difference and it is exciting and it is challenging. Most of the people in the job are of an exceptionally high calibre and good, honest, decent folk.

B) then ask yourself if you could do it?

When you're reading your morning paper over your cereal and you keep hearing yourself saying, "something should be done about that,/ why dont they,/ thats terrible etc etc......"! put the paper down, pick up the phone and apply to join, that's what I did and took a pay cut to do it; till that time all we ask is a little understanding. If you can't say anything supportive about the help we give, the good we do and the sacrifices we make on society's behalf, may I suggest you keep your own council and don't contribute to our frustrations.

RM

[jamesp]

CC of N Wales is only following the herd, I think Greater Manchester and Thames Valley(?) already run similar systems. I live in Wrexham and have seen some of Mr Brunstroms ideas in practice already, I have also been on the recieving end of a malicious complaint from some young kids and the eager follow up it got from the police. If they had been working to targets then, what chance would I have stood? It would have been an easy conviction, the hell with the truth. Whilst some measure of "productivity" would be good, will we just end up in a situation where conviction is based upon ease of effort for the officers concerned, why slog your guts out on an involved job when 40 motoring offences has you clear for the month? I am labeled anti Police by some, its rubbish like this scheme that winds me up. You will end up criminalising generally law abbiding people, while the shite that do not give a toss and make life a misery for the general population will get away with near murder if they make it complicated enough to prosecute them.