UK Suicide Bombers responsible for London massacre

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by jptaylor9

I wonder, with hind sight, if Ken Livingstone now regrets inviting high profile radical Muslim clerics like Dr Al-Qaradawi to a conference at his new London offices.

Ken seems to have been very quite on this front!

He was slated for doing this with the IRA as well. His argument was if you refuse to talk to these people their only remaining option is fighting.

Seems reasonable to me.

My 9 year old came home from school last Thursday and asked me why the Muslims had blown up parts of London? I did my utmost to explain that it wasn't the Muslims but that it was a group of power crazed radical individuals who had twisted and perverted the Muslim religion to suit there own ends and had coersed and manipulated week minded men to carry out their dirty work.

I feel sorry for the suicide bombers because I am an atheist. I wholeheartedly believe they have totally wasted their lives for a pointless cause in the infantile belief that there is some super being that’s going to thank them for it and make them happy and powerful in another place. What a joke. I can’t hate them only pity them but I do hate the extremists at the top who never seem to get the punishment they deserve.

I don’t believe in Santa Claus and I don’t believe in God. If only everyone were that way then there would be less leverage for the nutcases at the top to manipulate the masses.

ATB

Mark Chase

[turbanator]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

The bombs contained high grade explosives and were of an advanced construction, no timers were found, indicating self detonation.

Isn't that a little contradictory?
Surely (from what little I know of bomb-making), a KISS bomb is a battery, a switch, a detonator and some explosive - maybe some nuts and bolts for maximum effect.

'Advanced construction' to me implies timers, remote/backup detonation, failsafes and/or tamper triggers.

Originally Posted by Mattbin

So it looks like they were indeed willing suicide bombers. Perhaps then the explosives left behind were booby trapped and the id was left so the stuff would be found and/or martyr status assured.

Matt

Probably right, though if the cache was booby-trapped, it shows a disregard for the lives of people in their own community.

[Alan]

I would just like to point out that the trouble in N.Ireland is related to pariticular area where everybody there is an arse. Its not reflective of religion, or poliitical probems. Its more to do with them experiencing unusually good weather and nothing much to do in the way of recreational activities.

I suspect its been put on for a group of tourists since the Terror Tourism in N.Ireland is taking off!!

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

My 9 year old came home from school last Thursday and asked me why the Muslims had blown up parts of London? I did my utmost to explain that it wasn't the Muslims but that it was a group of power crazed radical individuals who had twisted and perverted the Muslim religion to suit there own ends and had coersed and manipulated week minded men to carry out their dirty work.

Fair shout.

Originally Posted by Mark Chase

I don’t believe in Santa Claus and I don’t believe in God. If only everyone were that way then there would be less leverage for the nutcases at the top to manipulate the masses.

Perhaps being a tad naïve there Mark mate. Alas human nature doesn't work like that and it's got sod all to do with anyones' God (a theme I'll return to later in this thread) - if it wasn't 'God' it'd be for some other deeply-held belief or cause that these idiots walked into packed public areas before triggering (remotely or otherwise) devices to explode.

If only it, a cure for this norz, were as simple as removing peoples' belief systems!!

[dave archer]

Originally Posted by Mr T.

Perhaps being a tad naïve there Mark mate. Alas human nature doesn't work like that and it's got sod all to do with anyones' God (a theme I'll return to later in this thread) - if it wasn't 'God' it'd be for some other deeply-held belief or cause that these idiots walked into packed public areas before triggering (remotely or otherwise) devices to explode.

If only it, a cure for this norz, were as simple as removing peoples' belief systems!!

I don't think the argument "if it weren't religion it'd be something else" holds. IMO it would be much harder to persuade people who do not believe in some form of life after death to commit suicide for a cause.

Dave

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by dave archer

I don't think the argument "if it weren't religion it'd be something else" holds. IMO it would be much harder to persuade people who do not believe in some form of life after death to commit suicide for a cause.

Dave

So the Kamikaze Jap Zero Flyers of WW2 were what, precisely?

Their cause was the Emperor, not an issue of any after life - with or without a god.

[dave archer]

Originally Posted by Mr T.

So the Kamikaze Jap Zero Flyers of WW2 were what, precisely?

Their cause was the Emperor, not an issue of any after life - with or with a god.

Whether their primary motivation or not, did they believe in an after life (genuine question - I don't know)?

Also note I said "much harder to persuade" not impossible - one answer to your question might be "much harder to persuade/brainwash than they would have been if they'd been religious fanatics"...

Dave.

[Mr T.]

Originally Posted by dave archer

Whether their primary motivation or not, did they believe in an after life (genuine question - I don't know).

Also note I said "much harder to persuade" not impossible.

Dave.

Dave, please don't confuse any reasonable or rational mere persuasion (harder to do or otherwise), like they find themselves in a debating society, with the brain-washing which goes on in today's Mad-mullah-driven and deliberately radicalising (to its students) Madrasas (again, a topic I'm coming onto later and in context to the original question in the thread) or the strict orders (again no choice - and we all know how much Japs were sticklers for following orders) given to the Kamikaze pilots of the Imperial Japanese Forces - where the Emperor was, to them, a living deity. Whether they bought the idea of any afterlife was up to them or not - it didn't stop them commiting suicide for a cause.

[dave archer]

Bren, no need to spell out the lack of reason/rationale in this - preaching to the converted (so to speak ) and why I used the term "brainwash" above.

Emperor = living deity... to my mind this reduces the applicability of Kamikaze pilots as an example to support religion not being needed to [insert perferred term] people into committing suicide for a cause.

I still reckon the belief of reward in an afterlife must make a person more easily "fooled" [that term fits my view quite nicely] into such an act, compared to someone who truelly believes death is a black hole ending.

Not having a pop at religion in general here BTW.

Dave.

PS looking forward to your later post on this general topic - note to self, put aside a couple of hours

[Mark Chase]

Originally Posted by Mr T.

So the Kamikaze Jap Zero Flyers of WW2 were what, precisely?

Their cause was the Emperor, not an issue of any after life - with or without a god.

The Japanese were VERY religious and the emperor was a physical god rather like Cesar. The Jap Zero Flyers were like the Samurai who believed to die in battle was to die with god and a heroic death ensured them a seat at gods table. The Zero pilots were also treated like royalty and their families were richly rewarded and honoured.

A noble death is at the heart of Japanese religious belief. So exactly like the fanatics that blew them selves up in London I would say.

ATB

Mark Chase