Modern Manners

[resting rifleman]

"working parts in moving contact produce friction, oil reduces friction!
formal politnesses and good manners are the oil of society!"
dont throw sand in the machine!

dunno who said that but it makes a lot of sense to me!

[MATTBIN]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

Question for those with their own teenage kids - does this apply to them, or is it just other peoples kids?

Just asking....

Of course it applies to my own children, they arent teenagers anymore (one is) but they do behave in a manner I would be proud of. My daughter constantly gets up for less able people (she's 23).
TBH I think having had grandparents around has helped, they have seen how 'old' people are no longer as fit as a fiddle and as such can relate to being less able.
Society in general is becoming less 'giving' in a non materialistic way, we seem to think that giving cash for needy causes in some way absolves us of common courtesy perhaps?

When our 'leaders' are seen to behave in a manner that is selfish and self-centred is it any wonder our young people behave in a simialr way. What role models do they have, broken, divorced, seperated families, where parents do whatever they want to satisfy their personal desires. Politicians lieing and cheating, heads of State behaving publicly in a manner that belies their responsibilities, I'm surprised the rest of society behave anywhere near decently.


Matt

[BrianG]

I do not think that this is really an age issue but more to do with the standards set by parents. They are after all the people who should be responsible for the behaviour of their offspring, although you would hardly believe it in todays nanny state. As someone has already stated, if you have been dragged up proper the values stick. On a recent visit to the supermarket I observed two adults park a car in a space reserved for parents with young children. Two others perfectly able bodied park in a disabled space, two more parked in the pick up area return from a prolonged shopping trip loaded with bags and an equally poorly behaved grand child. It appears some people believe the rules and small courtecies that oil the wheels of society are for others to follow.

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by BrianG

I do not think that this is really an age issue but more to do with the standards set by parents. They are after all the people who should be responsible for the behaviour of their offspring, although you would hardly believe it in todays nanny state. As someone has already stated, if you have been dragged up proper the values stick. On a recent visit to the supermarket I observed two adults park a car in a space reserved for parents with young children. Two others perfectly able bodied park in a disabled space, two more parked in the pick up area return from a prolonged shopping trip loaded with bags and an equally poorly behaved grand child. It appears some people believe the rules and small courtecies that oil the wheels of society are for others to follow.

I've now got a stock of stickers in my car which have;

Parent and Child parking isn't the same as Lazy Selfish Bastard Parking.

written on them on waterproof paper, because having a 1 and 5 year old I see it all the time. So I usually bung one of these under their wiper blades. They don't really care but it makes me feel better that at least someone has noticed their selfishness.

[Lazlo]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

Of course it applies to my own children

Possibly you missed my point there (I could be wrong). Naturally, good manners/politeness should apply to all children. My post was supposed to be a (slightly facetious) point about how it's possible that some parents tend not to notice the failings of their own children, whereas they can be quick to do the reverse.

To take my own case, I was always polite when my parents were about, less so when they weren't. My own teenage son (well not actually biologically mine, but close enough), is a model of helpfulness and politeness whenever he's around us, however it's difficult to know what he gets up to behind our backs.

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

When our 'leaders' are seen to behave in a manner that is selfish and self-centred is it any wonder our young people behave in a simialr way. What role models do they have, broken, divorced, seperated families, where parents do whatever they want to satisfy their personal desires.

Easy point to make. Difficult to find actual evidence of this. Again, from my own experience (which I'm not going into here), I remember only bad examples from my youth. It doesn't stop me knowing right from wrong, or at least my own version of it. Sometimes bad examples show us how not to behave.

In the end we take responsibility for our own actions. Personally I would never blame my background for any action I took. Also, I don't consider that other people's backgrounds have all that much bearing on how they act. That's just weak.

IMHO

[littleH]

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

Agree with the above. I have seen people continue to stay seated in the seats reserved for less able and often been tempted to tell them to get up, probably not a good thing in central London. Less able - can be anyone, last time I travelled by PT a youngish guy (30/36) was clearly struggling to support himself and carry his young (<2) son in his arms, did anyone get up from the aforementioned seats, did they bollox.

Don't take this the wrong way but erm..... dare i say 'pot, kettle' OK OK i don't know your personal circumstances and at the young age of 50 i know the 'youth' should have some manners but why not set an example.

Originally Posted by MATTBIN

Odd how even at 50 I still feel like getting up for a lady on the train/bus, even when they are clearly much younger than me and probbaly more able but wary I'll get a lippy reply. Womens Lib have a lot to answer for.

why not..........just do it...... set an example to the young. I think it's great and a really nice jesture when I see someone offering their seat to someone who clearly needs it. It really makes me smile and prooves that manners haven't died yet.

I remember when I used to get the bus and train to school, i'd offer my seat to anyone that looked 30 or over cos when I was 12/13 they looked old, occasionally they'd refuse it but most of the time they'd say thanks and take it and i'd be left squashed and trying not to bash anyone with my bag whilst clinging to a pole and hurtling towards Manchester! But i'll be bring ing any little brats I ever have up the same way.

[Bantam]

I think the biggest problem which no-one's addressed is to do with sex and/or responsibility, and chatting to my folks I think I've identified what it is;

40 years ago, pregnancy outside of marriage was seen as a stigma. Even up until 20 years ago, people would get pregnant and then have an abortion. I know 3 35 year olds who had abortions when they were 18 and 19.

Nowadays there is a growing amount of people having kids by accident, and not wanting to take responsibility for them, versus people actually trying for kids on purpose and planning their future for them, which is what happened in the past.

The growth of latchkey kids means the parents don't actually care about them at all - council estates like rabbit warrens, having kids just to get the extra money from the government whilst neither of them work and just laze around - they're just living their life just as they did before the kids were born. They're a hindrance to them and just cause them grief, and only put up with them because of the income support and benefits they get. I really feel sorry for the kids because they'll be bright but have a crap start in life because of the parents who don't give a toss.

Let me explain where I'm coming from - Where I used to live in Foxwood (York) there was a little lad who was aged 8. His parents would give him a £5 in the morning and tell him to go to school. They used to spend the day down the pub and he'd be on his own all day and would let himself in the house in the evening, on his own, and used to use the microwave to cook his tea from the freezer and would be totally on his own until his folks came back from the pub about 8pm ish, totally shedded. Some weekends they'd kick him out the house during the day and he'd be wandering around the streets. Poor lad was just totally left on his own, but he didn't know any better.

Then you look at those of us who had to struggle to have our kids. It took us 4 years before our first one arrived, and a further three years for the second one. I love my kids to bits and my life's changed for them - I solely do a job I dislike doing because it pays well and I can send my daughter to a good school.

Mark.

[MATTBIN]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

Possibly you missed my point there (I could be wrong). Naturally, good manners/politeness should apply to all children. My post was supposed to be a (slightly facetious) point about how it's possible that some parents tend not to notice the failings of their own children, whereas they can be quick to do the reverse.

To take my own case, I was always polite when my parents were about, less so when they weren't. My own teenage son (well not actually biologically mine, but close enough), is a model of helpfulness and politeness whenever he's around us, however it's difficult to know what he gets up to behind our backs.

Of course children may behave differently away from parental gaze, be surprised if they didnt, be difficult to spot your own kids 'failings' if you're not right behind them all the time

Easy point to make. Difficult to find actual evidence of this. Again, from my own experience (which I'm not going into here), I remember only bad examples from my youth. It doesn't stop me knowing right from wrong, or at least my own version of it. Sometimes bad examples show us how not to behave.

Agreed

In the end we take responsibility for our own actions. Personally I would never blame my background for any action I took. Also, I don't consider that other people's backgrounds have all that much bearing on how they act. That's just weak.

Agreed we take responsibility for our own actions and the role model of a parent is to show that sometimes these actions result in consequences that are not good, but in our modern society this is a rare thing. As an example Blunkett will probably get a very well paid directorship(s) somewhere as the result of his past indiscretions and current 'error of judgement', is that a good example to set our children, wheer decent hardworking people sometimes suffer through no fault of their own e.g. job losses through call centre migration of jobs, which example looks the better one?

Matt

[MATTBIN]

Originally Posted by littleH

Don't take this the wrong way but erm..... dare i say 'pot, kettle' OK OK i don't know your personal circumstances and at the young age of 50 i know the 'youth' should have some manners but why not set an example.

I was standing at the time.

why not..........just do it...... set an example to the young. I think it's great and a really nice jesture when I see someone offering their seat to someone who clearly needs it. It really makes me smile and prooves that manners haven't died yet.

Evidently you have not been on the receiving end of an ear bashing from some feminist, these days I try to give my seat up if I think the person concerned wants it.

I remember when I used to get the bus and train to school, i'd offer my seat to anyone that looked 30 or over cos when I was 12/13 they looked old, occasionally they'd refuse it but most of the time they'd say thanks and take it and i'd be left squashed and trying not to bash anyone with my bag whilst clinging to a pole and hurtling towards Manchester! But i'll be bring ing any little brats I ever have up the same way.

Agreed

Matt

[Ding Dang Doo]

Whenever anyone has my eldest two (11 and 9)for whatever reason, they always say to me how well bahaved and well mannered they are.
As a parent I don't always see this at home... but I would rather it be this way!

3D