not another police bashing thread...

[kuki9591]

I have always refrained to contributing to the police bashing threads on this site because I believe the police have a very demanding and difficult job to do, however….

The following is based on first hand accounts.

It was a friends birthday yesterday so we went to a pub in Solihull town centre for some drinks, it was only 7pm, we had only started our second drink when there was a tap on my shoulder. A police officer with a sniffer dog came out with the words “excuse me sir, we have reason to believe you may be in possession of a controlled substance” or words to that effect. I was asked to go outside to the van for a search. Whilst I was putting my coat on, my friend said “their taking the piss” Another officer asked him if he would like to take that back, he replied no, asked several more times, he said no on each occasion. He was dragged outside for a public order offence.

There was no room in the van, so my search was conducted on the pavement outside the pub in the rain on a busy high street. Whilst the search was taking place, I could see my friend being shouted at and searched himself.

We were both allowed to go back into the pub, but being searched in that way was quite humiliating. If the officer had a genuine belief I might be carrying drugs, then fine no objection to being searched if it helps gets the dealers lifted. But I certainly think the Police went OTT in dealing with my friend. In the context of a busy pub on a Saturday night, I would not consider the word “piss” to be a public order offence.

It is incidents like these that damage the respect the public has for the police, after last nights events, I can think of at least two members of the public that are now less supportive of the police than they were before.


Mike

[Mark Davies]

Mike,

I'm guessing the reason for the search was because the sniffer dog gave an indication towards you and your friends. They're animals - not sophisticated scientific instruments - and so they are not infallible. You may very well have had traces of drugs on you picked up from the seats in the pub for instance, and the dog could have picked that up.

The officers have a job to do. In the circumstances, with an indication from the dog, it was not unreasonable to request a search - and I imagine you would probably agree, yes?

So, given that you are a police officer simply working to uphold the law for the benefit of the public and acting perfectly reasonably, being told that you are 'just taking the piss' can be irritating. You are not taking the piss - you're just doing your job. Now if it was me I'd just let the comment pass. I've been about a bit and know just how these situations can escalate from very little - especially when people have had a drink. It's easier to be thick skinned and just take it in my view. But other officers don't - and I won't criticise them too strongly because why should they take abuse?

I'm guessing your mate may have been a bit more vocal than you let on (people who have had a drink usually are and when shown the videos once they are sober tend to be horrified by their own behaviour) - but I won't generalise in this case as you say you were not drunk. You don't mention your friend actually being arrested or given a ticket for a public order offence so I'm assuming he was simply advised. Hardly heavy handed, then.

Being searched out on the street and not out of view is not good - in fact it's a breach of procedure and an infringement of your rights and for that you do have grounds for complaint - but bearing in mind the only alternative way to conduct a private search may have been to take you to a police station (which legally they could have done) which was the lesser of the two evils?

Mike, it's all about being on two different sides of it and having two different perceptions of what is going on. You're just trying to have a quiet drink and have had that disturbed by police officers whom you've felt were blunt and unprofessional. They were just trying to do their job reasonably and lawfully and got a load of lip for their efforts.

Could they have been more professional? Probably. Could you have been more co-operative? Probably.

I see you have no complaints of what went on upto the point your friend told them they were taking the piss, so ultimately who was responsible for setting the situation off course in the first place?

[Rod]

Originally Posted by kuki9591

“their taking the piss”

Why did they want a urine sample?

I think your mates attitude did not really help. I take it the sniffer dog must have indicated you in some way so the officer has to search you. They are not taking the piss they are doing their job. Your mate piping up and sticking his oar in is the last thing they want on a Saturday night.

We have the sniffer dogs on the passenger boats a lot and the officers seem like good guys. They did say that if someone has smoked drugs near you recently the dog may well indicate you.

[trebor]

This does seem abit over the top, Mate. I would go back to the police and find out why you were targeted. Maybe your get an apology

Rob

[Conor]

Having been in similar positions in the past I can only think of two perspectives.
1. They are doing a difficult job, in a pub with a load of drunk people so are quite likely to be on edge
2. Given the above it is likely that the second guy got over zealous. But this may have been encouraged by your mate. Sometimes when in a loud pub etc speaking loud enough to be heard can be seen as shouting and agressive (was the seond guy a younger cop?)

Mate, I know its upsetting, I know you got humiliated and that is out of order but try to put it down as one w%&^er and not let it tar you impression of the whole service.

Conor

[kuki9591]

I have no issues with being searched, my issue is with the way my friend handled. As I said, we had only just started our second drink, we were not pissed.

My friend said "their taking the piss" this was directed at me and was said maybe just a little louder than than normal.

"got a load of lip for their efforts" overhearing the words "their taking the piss" is hardly a load of lip.

As for making a complaint for being searched on the street, that will help nobody.

[B]

Well I am sorry but "you are taking the piss" is actually rather offensive, and without a doubt the way it was said was not exactly your average little old ladys way...

If you get stopped and searched, why give lip, your mate had no right to stick his oar in. I am sorry, I have no symphaty at all for what happened, try working a saturday night for the police, and listen to the things we have to.. maybe give you another perspective...

public order is quite simple.. behave or you get one slapped on you.. if I had been in the pub and someone had spoken to me like that I would have found it offensive, just because you and your mate think that is acceptable to speak and use sentences like that does not mean others think it is... it is all about thinking how things come across..

I can not comment on the incident, but at the 20th time last night during my night shift someone swore and was defensive towards me, I had had enough too.. and the patience was not there that was there at 7 pm.. and that is not because I am police, it is just plain human...

Just my 2p worth.. and purely my opinion.and I am really a nice person...

[Mark Davies]

Originally Posted by kuki9591

overhearing the words "their taking the piss" is hardly a load of lip.

So just how much is acceptable? How much abuse are you allowed to give a police officer before we are allowed to be offended? As I said, for me I'd not have made an issue about it other than to say we were just doing a job and explaining exactly why you'd been selected for a search - hopefully demonstrating that the assertion we were 'taking the piss' was a little unjust and rather reactionary. Understandably, we're all different and some of my colleagues have a lower tolerance level. But at the end of it, all the officer did was ask your friend to take the comment back. It was your friend who was the one adamant to make some kind of stubborn stand on it.

In every city in the country, every Sunday morning there are just dozens of people who are telling tales of having had a run-in with the police. Quite remarkably in every single case apparently it was because the police were being tossers. Oddly these incidents are never the fault of the people involved - which is why everybody seems to know somebody who for absolutely no reason whatsoever got locked up and beaten up by the police.

However, take a look sometime at one of those 'fly-on-the'wall' programs where they follow the cops round on a Friday night. In every single one you will see some drunken idiot being a complete prick and very restrained police officers giving him every opportunity to behave and just go home before eventually, after more warninggs and chances given than you can possibly believe, the officers are left with no option but to lock him up. The idiot then starts fighting with the cops and again you see the officers very controlled in the way they try to restrain him.

Now your case was not quite like this - fair enough - but I assure you that those drunken idiots will just like you be posting on forums on a Sunday morning complaining about getting hassled and beaten up by the police 'for no reason whatsoever' - and not a word of it will be true or in any way justified. But unfortunately, everyone believes it anyway.

[CotoChris]

When I was studying in the UK I would drive to college at the beginning of term from Portugal. On crossing the ferry I knew I would get stopped, I must have looked like something worthwhile but on one occasion it was far beyond from normal.
I gave a lift of a couple who were friends of my sister, on a rest stop in France I noticed they were smoking pot. I told them in no circumstances for them to take any to UK because I didn't want any hassle, also the car was mine.
On The Portsmouth customs as expected I was stopped. The dog came and must have given them the 'signal'. I had the car emptied, they place cameras in fuel tanks and searched as much as possible without taking the car to pieces. They did drud swaps on my jeans and coats (as well as my friends). I was taken to a room and stripped, luckily I didn't get the black glove treatment. A drug swap on my pruning knife showed possitive to some drug. I can only presume that the chemicals on some plants are the same family as the drugs tested, but they didn't want to hear any excuse.
In the end they didn't find anything and after four hours we were free to go. I stopped at the nearest train station to told the couple to f*ck off. I reckon that the dog smelled their pot or the remains off.
I don't blame the police, it was their job and although not particular nice they were profesional. It was humiliating and extremely annoying but although not my fault they had reason.
From now on I don't cross borders with anyone I don't know really well especialy the UK where the customs are very strict.
It's easy to give the fuzz agro but the only way to get around is to keep your gob shut and let them do their job, I'm sure they heard very excuse in the book and I doubt I can come up with anything new.

[Conor]

In what planet is 'taking the piss' offensive, granted it was hardly helpful, and may have been in any given case been delivered in an offensive manner, but its colloquial english and not offensive in itself. The officer in question may have felt they were acting to control the situation before they risked it deteriorating, but that phrase itself is not offensive, unless you are victorian.